Villain was relatively new to the table and seemed on the tight side.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($4.99)
Button ($0.49)
Hero (SB) ($4.15)
BB ($6.87)
UTG ($0.93)
UTG+1 ($2.06)
MP1 ($8.19)
MP2 ($1.78)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, A
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, CO bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.13, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.40) Q, 10, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.15, CO raises to $0.40, Hero ???

Normally I'm not calling a raise from a tight player w/ AJ in the blinds but with since it's soooted I figured I'd play it for the flush potential. On the flop I decide to donk partly to test villain and partly to disguise my hand. When she raises I figure she's got a made hand, perhaps AA, KK, AQ. Do you reraise with the intention of getting it in here? Flat call to see if you make your hand on the turn?

If you are betting here it is to bet/3bet. You should only bet/3bet if you think villain may raise as a bluff or raise and then also fold. Your hand is obviously really strong, if your A isn't an out you still have 12 clean outs to the nuts. Also, your donk is way too small, make it .30-.40.

When you 3bet shove, you need to try and get some kind of fold equity. Anyways, you can note villain as a fish, cuz no matter what he has his raise size sucks. That board is very dangerous and he raises to such a small amount that it's just never good.

Agree with T. Also blocker sized donk bets suck in general unless you know the guy spazzes out to them, and you flop a big hand that you want to take to showdown.



With MP limping and the raise being so small you should be playing it for more than just "flush potential." You definitely have enough equity to get 2 streets of post flop value on top pair, even if it's a passive line. This is an easy call imo, and I think you can go down to ATs and AJo

I'm not calling PF with AJ sooted to fold this shit.
I'm just not.
I think I get it in, because I have an image to maintain.

there is a great section on this in Skalansky's NL Theory book. and this is a huge flaw in many players at micros and mid-high stakes. not betting in relation to the pot size. i do believe however he did give reasons where this can be used effectively but i smoke too much herb and forget..

Blocking? or Bluffing cheap? Either way it's pretty bad on a board like this to raise small. I've never read the book though.

i'm raising to like $1.80ish with the intention of getting it in.

What are you doing if he flats $1.80 and you brick the turn out of position? What are you doing if you hit the turn? Pot will be about $3.80 or so and villain will have $3 stack.

both and also causing spaz outs. it was def board and villian dependent and wouldn't apply on this board. i've tried it and have failed a few and caused a few spaz shoves. i was just talking about concept cause it's interesting imo.

If you have the book, look it up when you get a chance, I'd like to see one of his examples and see if I agree/it teaches me something.

I've tried it and just can't seem to stimulate spaz moves.

If he's talking about NL Theory and Practice I don't recall a huge mention about this concept... just that you should raise blocker bets quite often, and that other good players will raise blocker bets often so it's good to use as a level. It didn't go much more in depth than that.

I use this concept when I flop something like top set that rarely gets action otherwise.

I was wondering about this myself. Stacks are too deep to 3-bet shove, so if there is a reasonable chance that he'd just call my 3-bet and we're going to see a turn, wouldn't it be better for me to just call the initial raise and see the turn? Or is the risk of building the pot and whiffing on the turn still worth the benefit of building the pot and hitting as compared to calling, hitting the turn, and winning a smaller pot?

I would like to know how people would play the turn if they 3-bet to $1.80ish and villain flat called.

I'd just shove as my 3bet.

i agree to donk more, but also would like to hear how people play various turns if you 3bet to 1.80 and villain flats.

This.

If we donk-bet more, stacks get (slightly) smaller

With very little thought, you shove if you miss and check if you hit and if he checks back you shove river.

I agree with a few above you need to bet at least half on flop. The problem now to 4-bet or to not 4-bet. I 4-bet this for 2 reasons. 1. our micro donk was very small so a repop from like a flush draw is kind of likely, also AQ or Q10 but or flop bet failed to give us any real info so its time to find out if you have many out, 15, or a lot of outs 12, and see what happens if you get flated on the turn. Also if we face a 5-bet im stumped because it probably means a set. If that would happen according to my poker stove we are at about 34.8% equity so i would curse the world and fold. The thing about this hand is worst case scenario we are almost 35%, so we only need 16% foldong equity on 2 streets to show a profit. 2. i kind of got off topic but we are live to the nuts in at least 12 cards,... It looks like to me we induced a bluff or an overplay of a Q to try and take it down now.

Good point. If I donk $.40, and she raises to something like $1, then a 3-bet shove doesn't look so ridiculous. But shoving $4 over a raise to $.40 into a pot that is less than $1 seems a bit over the top to say the least.

This doesn't relate to this thread really, but last night I read this response, Temp Nuts, and it stayed in the back of my mind...later on I was in a $11, 300-man tourny and used this exact idea when I flopped mid set on a pretty dry board. I donked for around 1/4 to 1/3 the pot and got someone to call with AK high, he turned an Ace and I stacked him, then went on to finish 7th in the tourny for $135. My usual line in that situation would probably be to lead more around 1/2 pot or go for c/r depending on villains and action, so kudos for popping that idea into my head because it worked out beautifully for me.

At micro stakes donkbets are usually just that. It's amazing how often the following type of scenario occurs (at .02-.05):

I raise to .15 w/ AQ, one of the blinds calls. Flop comes J85, villain donks .10 or .15, I raise, he folds. Happens far, far more often than villain donking with a big hand to get action.

I think PF, this is a 3bet or fold

Now...never fold. Raise. Reraise...arrrrrrrrr innnnnnnnn

Don't thank me. Just pick up a copy of Sklansky's NL Holdem Theory and Practice. It will pay for itself I promise.

Based on your recommendation I probably will. I read his Theory of Poker a couple years ago and though I meant to re-read it (impossible to absorb all that math in one read) I think the closest I ever came was a skimming through it once or twice in the last 2 years. Ohhhh and you also just reminded me of a torrent package I d/led a couple months back with 98 complete poker books (a couple kind of useless ones but a LOT of very good ones), and I just checked it and turns out I have that book in there. Sweet! lol, thanks again.

So wanna know how I ended up playing it?

I flat called the raise and the turn brought a J. So now I have 2ndPTK+NFD. I check, villain leads for something like $.75, I push. Villain calls quickly and flips over AK for the turned nut straight. Didn't see that coming. Fortunately I lucked out and hit the flush on the river to take the pot.

In any case, I knew I butchered the hand...thus the thread. Thanks for the replies.

Calling or 3 betting preflop are both fine. I would never fold unless maybe villain was super nitty

Obviously late to the party here, but some thoughts:

Does nobody 3-bet AJh vs a CO raise? Would we do it if we were on the button?

Our read is relatively meaningless since he's new to the table, our sample size is tiny.

Curious about preflop, mostly because I've got HU on the brain, and literally haven't played full ring in several years.

On this flop, my first instinct is to c/r because I never think of donking, just a terrible predisposition I have that costs me money, but donking is definitely think best move, in retrospect. Of course, as everyone has said, your lead is too small. Plan things out all the way to the river. If we donk here, what is our plan? Ideally, we want to get it in. That should be your first reaction upon seeing this flop, find a way to get it in. You should be as excited to hit this flop as you are hitting a set on a dry board.

So we need to formulate a plan. If we donk for 30 cents or so, we can expect a raise from the villain to be somewhere around 80 cents or more. We want him to raise us, and we want to be able to get it in on the flop. We also don't mind having some FE against a made hand, especially one that kills some of our overcard outs. So, leading 30, they raise to 80 or 90, we have a natural sized shove coming, and one that will give us a lot of FE against certain hands that we wouldn't mind folding out.

So, as everyone has stated, lead more, 3-bet shove, hit the Kh.

3betting here for value is pretty rough imo.

In position 3betting isn't bad, but I'd still flat call and play position. Deeper I think 3betting in position is good.

I'd 3bet AK, TT+ and some suited connectors in the blinds here.

We're not at a level where we're 3betting hands like 8-7s so I agree we need to nit up our 3bet range from the blinds.

Planning out hands from beginning to river is on my to-do list of things to work on as I develop my game. Right now my game is still too focused on taking each street as it comes.

I'd probably call preflop, but 3 betting is fine too, depending on what we know about villain. I'd be more likely to 3 bet otb.

I really find it rather unprofitable to threebet AJs/AJo from the blind vs most CO or BTN raisers. It plays so poorly OOP in bloated pots.

I agree