PHOENIX (AP) -- There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink -- rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.

But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.

The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.

"This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"

The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association. Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.

"These laws are common sense," said NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons. "Restaurants are not immune to criminal activity. Law-abiding people -- regardless of whether they're in restaurants, cars or homes -- they should be able to protect themselves against criminal attack."

One of the bill's sponsors, Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, said it's about time Arizona passes such a law, and that the most important thing is that people carrying guns into bars aren't allowed to drink.

"You don't want intoxicated people with weapons, and this bill continues the prohibition against drinking and carrying," said Kavanagh, a retired police officer in New York and New Jersey. "What is the problem with having a gun in a delicatessen where someone is having a beer with their pastrami two tables away?"

The law would only apply to people with concealed-weapons permits because lawmakers say that type of gun owner has to pass a background check and take an eight-hour course to get their permits, and are therefore safer. More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed-weapons permits, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.

Arizonans are also allowed to openly carry guns -- on a belt or holster, for example. But those people would still not be allowed in bars or restaurants serving alcohol if they're armed.

The bill has been approved by the Senate and is now before the House; Republican Gov. Jan Brewer would still have to OK it.

Marc Peagler, owner of the Silver Spur Saloon Restaurant in Cave Creek outside Phoenix, said he's in favor of the legislation and sees some marketing potential in it.

"I look at it this way -- let's just say for a moment you're a crook or a thief," Peagler said. "Are you going to break into a place where you know that there might be 10 to 15 people who are armed? I wouldn't do that."

Peagler, a gun owner himself, said people with concealed-weapons permits aren't people to be concerned about.

"People who carry concealed weapons for the most part are your general law-abiding citizens, and the people who are going to break the law are going to do it no matter what laws we have out there," he said. "If somebody has been drinking and they have a weapon in the car, they're just going to go out and get it."

Frank Murray, owner of Seamus McCaffrey's Irish Pub & Restaurant in downtown Phoenix, said he opposes the law and will prohibit his customers from coming in armed.

"It's kind of like the Wild West days," he said. "We've got enough nuts out on the street walking around with guns. We don't need them in places with alcohol and families."

The Arizona Licensed Beverage Association threw its support behind the bill after some compromises were made this week. The Arizona Restaurant Association has taken a neutral stance, but in previous years came out against most bills that would have allowed guns in bars and restaurants with alcohol.

This year's bill is one of several measures loosening gun laws moving through the Arizona Legislature.

In May, the House overwhelmingly approved a bill that would permit gun owners to keep a weapon out of sight in a locked vehicle in a parking lot or garage. That would override employers that ban weapons on their property.

Last week, a Senate committee approved a bill that would allow Arizonans to carry concealed weapons without state permits, despite objections from law enforcement.

LOL @ us.
The United States.
How far we have fallen.

Really? Please name the time period when you think living in the United States was better that it is today.

Git outta my way, I's a-got me some drinkin' to do!

Just where do you think we're headed?
Explain what our glorious future is and how we get there?
We have a fragmented, violent, debased culture exhibiting signs of growing discord.
Our economy is in a shambles and we have no potential to produce or grow out of it.
We have no friends or allies in the world.
A Korean nutcase is going to lob a missile at Hawaii in a couple days.
We're fighting a two-front war and accomplishing nothing and winning nothing.
Almost every level of our government(s) is/are totally bankrupt.
Labor has been completely devalued by 20 MIRRRION (FMP) illegal immigrants.
Those same illegals are a millstone for education and human services.
All the but the upper middle class and above (+/- 10% of the population) have a negative net worth.
We are accelerating an acidic legacy of wealth transfer with Cap and Trade.

January 20th, 2001 - January 19th 2009

Huffing is fun

sure you dont want to change that first date to sept. 12, 2001? because thats apparently the date when Clinton stopped being responsible for things that occurred and Bush assumed responsibility.

I would concentrate more on the Reagan years for conservative good times.

Indeed.

One of the things I took out of my post was that the last three presidents we had were NAFTA kool-aid drinking new world order moderate baboons who have done more to erode and spend the sovereignty, wealth, power, treasure and blood of the United States of America than any invading force ever could have.

Well this right here shows you how much better workers the illegals really are.

Can you please do me a favor? List out all the ways you are trying to improve this country, other than complaining about it in poker forums. I'll accept volunteering, running for office, serious campaigning (not just handing out bumper stickers)...even your voting record would do. I need all this information so I can restrain myself from starting to make fun of you every time you make posts like the one above. It's gotten a bit ridiculous/redundant.

Not that you're wrong about most of it...but you're, like, totally harshing my buzz, man.

You're getting soft.

I'm getting bored is what's happening.

Yeah, I was so bored this weekend, I actually posted in GenPo, multiple times.

Before whitey showed up.




lol

I am president of a local foods group.
I ran a CSA.
My full time job is in improving the environment by working with farmers.
I am raising four A+ kids whose productivity will prob have to support you in your old age.
I have volunteered my time to coach more than 400 kids in 3 different sports.
I have donated money and helped raised money for the YMCA's Partner with youth program for 10 years.
I have worked on campaigns for Secretary of Agriculture and on a Presidential caucus campaign.
I've had more than 60 letters to the editor published.
I pay my bills on time and I don't need help with my mortgage.

I'm actually against the NRA on this one.

Guns and booze just don't mix very well, and while it's true that bad things can happen anywhere, they're a lot more likely to happen when two parties are drunk and armed.

I think you still make it illegal to drink and carry at the same time, but allow the weapon in the hands of a responsible owner no matter where s/he happens to be. There is some silly provision here in Michigan that you cannot carry in an establishment where they earn more than 50% of their revenue from alcohol.

Am I supposed to ask for their ledgers to determine if it is legal for me to carry in their establishment?

If you're responsible (which is the assumption allowing you to carry in the first place) then you shouldn't have to leave your weapon unattended in the car just because you're entering someplace that has a liquor license. If I remain sober it should still be legal for me to carry my weapon - but I'd be ok with a zero tolerance law that makes it a Felony to possess it in public while drinking.

just how old do you think speedz is?

I see this as more of a business owners' rights issue than a gun issue. I mean hey, if you don't want anyone to carry a pistol in your bar, ban people from carrying pistols in your bar. but now you have the right to allow it if you want. sounds good to me.

hey man, i'm all about freedom. but this right here is a bad fuckin idea, man.

Sigh...another fucked up poll where the only option is to vote for all of them.

One of the few things you say regarding the subject that I agree with.

I feel like you ignored the question that LLY asked, and instead went on a rant about stuff you are mad about. He asked when this country was better than it is today. 200 years ago it was decidedly worse, as far as our ethics and morality as a nation, not to mention the lack of medicine, entertainment, technology, and everything else that we have today.

Same with 150 years ago. Same with 100 years ago. Same with 50 years ago. BG's answer that it was better a year ago is obviously a joke, since it doesn't get to the root of LLY's question.

So, when were things better?




Wait, sorry, I'm kind of out of it. I still can't tell if you were joking or not. You were, weren't you?

"We have no friends of allies in the world." You just can't mean that. We probably have more 'friends and allies' than any other nation on the planet.

Yeah, but we're your lover, right??






- Note to other countries 'Hands off, bitches.'

we need to stick together

I've deleted everything that I don't find to be very pertinent to the stuff you're constantly complaining about. But it's nice that you do all kinds of things to support local agriculture (that's not sarcasm, I really do appreciate that). I'm sure you could tie it in to the economy and maybe even spin it so far as to claim that if we all relied solely on local goods it would solve all our foreign relations issues...but we can save that debate for a much, much rainier day.



That must earn you a hell of a bumper sticker.

you and the person you are talking to are both missing the issue.

Yeah, it's almost as if we're talking about something completely different.