Hero?

I'm never calling the river bet if thats what you mean. We are crushed or only slightly ahead 9 times out of 10. It's more of a question of should we call the bet on the flop. It's unlikely that the BB 3-bets an UTG raise with less than AK or JJ, so if he is generally an ABC player that flop bet looks to me like an over pair.

Yeah looks like aces kings queens etc. Calling would be bad on the vague hope that he has 10s or AK, but looks like a fold to me.

What would be scarey if he tripled up on something. Not playing the rest of the hands, you can't read the players. I would have folded to be safe, then agan, I am very conservative.

i guess you mean if he hit a set, b/c his stack does not suggest he's tripled up on anything.

i dont like to be mean to new guys, but none of your posts ive seen so far have made much sense.

Ok.. Any reads on villain? Has be been constantly 3betting? What about his perception of u? Are u raising a ton? Honestly if villain isn't a huge spewtard, the river is a super easy fold, and honestly I fold the flop a lot here depending on villain. If he is an unknown who seems decent u are clearly against ak or crushed. Range should be qq+ and ak. I chk/fold flop a lot here. Again reads are important.

If we're calling preflop AND on the flop, we're playing for stacks on this turn every time.

not true

we are deep enough to call flop and fold to turn shove. we are in position and we should probably use it..

No, the 3 is a total brick. What are we afraid of? Why did we call the flop if we're not ahead? I don't know of any hand that will, or that we even want to go check check turn and river with JJ and all unders.

we don't know if we are ahead. we are in position. his turn action will tell us.

Let's give him a tight range for cbetting the flop.

Board: 6h 8d 4h

Wins Ties Equity
57.09% 2.09% 59.18% ( JJ+, AK )
38.73% 2.09% 40.82% ( JhJs )

We are ahead of this range so we can call. Shoving the flop will only get called by better AhKh, JJ+. If he has any other random crap in his range he fold that to shove often imo. So shoving only gets called by better and folds out worse.

On The turn he is unlikely to shove with a hand that we beat, he might shove AhKh too.

Results from http:\\www.HoldEmRanger.com
880 evaluations, 20 hole card combos

Board: 6h 8d 4h 3s

Wins Ties Equity
87.50% 2.50% 90.00% ( JJ+, AhKh )
7.50% 2.50% 10.00% ( JhJs )


His range has changed on the turn and we are now far behind so we should fold.

Calling flop and folding turn seems very reasonable to me.

At this point, I had been playing at the table for a couple of hours. The villain seems to be sort of spewer and has made a couple of squeeze play type moves preflop like this before, never needing to have his cards revealed. For the most part, I have a tight aggressive image, and he understands this. He is definitely capable of firing two streets with AK, AQ, KQ type hands and mid over pairs. Earlier in the session I saw him make a play very similar to this with a top pair good kicker type of hand. He's willing to put the a lot of pressure on players and seems like he could easily get trapped for his stack if someone were to flop a set a two pair on his TPTK or over pair. He seemed to be getting into a lot of pots too, probably 2-3 hand per orbit.

just for future post this info helps if placed in the original post

i'm fine with getting it in vs a spewer

Maybe we can assume that we are less likely ahead after a shove on the turn? The 3 might be a blank but we are not only playing the board

Yah we need this read up front.
That's why I said in my post if we're calling PF and on the flop, we must be thinking we're ahead and the 3 is a total blank, so nothing's changed and we call this bet too.