well recently i've become more aggressive. basically this just means raising and reraising almost indiscriminately with AQ and AK. maybe if i have a super-tight read on a player i'll change it up, but pretty much i'll bet/raise pre-flop, and take it from there, but pretty much i'll crank up the aggression and represent aces until i'm convinced i'm done. i have been pretty good at getting away from the hands once i have my information with not much chance of being outplayed.

i've been doing this for probably a few thousand hands of 2/4 limit on EP and my results are not what i'd like. i think i'm winning, possibly even at a higher than average rate, but that seems to be more due to hitting more unusual hands than usual, i.e. flushes, big blind specials, etc.

it seems like every time i have AQ i run into AK and when i have AK i run into AQ with a queen on board. not to mention the many times i just run into high pocket pairs. i have probably bought a few pots but not a ton.

haven't read SSHE, but is this generally a good strategy?


also, for this hand, should i bet the turn? i suspected the original raiser of being slowplaying a set.

***** Hand History for Game 2071358821 *****
$2/$4 Hold'em - Thursday, May 19, 01:03:52 EDT 2005
Table Table 12194 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: googa13 ( $48 )
Seat 6: indyfire1008 ( $204 )
Seat 7: mrdannyg ( $120 )
Seat 10: gg_no_re ( $102.5 )
Seat 4: TinCans ( $72.25 )
Seat 3: AceAceBebe ( $59 )
Seat 1: maximilian9 ( $75.88 )
Seat 9: ouredman ( $12.61 )
Seat 5: XXLFella ( $168 )
Seat 8: greg82c68e ( $109 )
TinCans posts small blind [$1].
XXLFella posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mrdannyg [ Kd Qh ]
indyfire1008 folds.
>You have options at Table 39288 Table!.
mrdannyg calls [$2].
greg82c68e calls [$2].
ouredman calls [$2].
gg_no_re raises [$4].
maximilian9 calls [$4].
googa13 folds.
AceAceBebe folds.
TinCans folds.
XXLFella calls [$2].
mrdannyg calls [$2].
greg82c68e calls [$2].
ouredman calls [$2].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ts, 7h, Jc ]
XXLFella checks.
mrdannyg checks.
greg82c68e checks.
ouredman checks.
gg_no_re checks.
>You have options at Table 39288 Table!.
maximilian9 bets [$2].
XXLFella calls [$2].
mrdannyg calls [$2].
greg82c68e calls [$2].
ouredman calls [$2].
gg_no_re calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ac ]
XXLFella checks.
mrdannyg checks.
greg82c68e checks.
ouredman checks.
gg_no_re checks.
maximilian9 checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
XXLFella checks.
mrdannyg bets [$4].
greg82c68e folds.
ouredman folds.
gg_no_re calls [$4].
maximilian9 folds.
XXLFella folds.
mrdannyg shows [ Kd, Qh ] a straight, ten to ace.
gg_no_re doesn't show [ Ad, Ks ] a pair of aces.

thanks,
daniel

Don't post results and use the convertor...because I'm a nice guy
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [Kd], [Qh].
1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) [Ts], [7h], [Jc] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 bets, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) [Ac] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

River: (9.25 BB) [2s] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB
Main Pot: 11.25 BB, between Hero and MP2.

OK, here goes:


Raise preflop
Bet the flop, you have a nice piece of it with overcards and the openended

Bet the turn, your hand is very nicely disguised. If he has a set so be it...you have a straight

The river is obvious...you should have won more

convertor has tended not to work for me, so i usually don't use it. i'll try in the future.
thank you for the conversion sir.

No problem
Oh, and if the convertor gives ya a fit, split the blurb into pieces and use bold for important pieces

Always try the convertor first though

wow, this was grossly misplayed.

Raise preflop, bet the flop, bet the turn (BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE NUTZ)...the river was the only street that was played right.

I disagree. You should have raised preflop, but I like the flop call and the turn call. This is a situation where you've got so many players involved, you're going to get significantly more value from overcalls here than you would from getting the extra bets in.

The probability of the club draw is pretty low, so I think it's a risk worth taking.

Ice

What turn call? It was checked around

The problem with the ace is it's scare card to a pair, the ace is a scary card, where as a nine wouldn't be.. check raise on a nine, but bet out an ace...

Also, there are half of the people in between hero and the PFR. What makes you think anyone is folding to a raise, anyway?

In Theory.

"your saying hay everbody don't look at me look at the preflop raiser." and "look it's cheap call them if you got 'em".

I love going for overcalls if a hand came down like above. I bet it was a game where I would have raised preflop though.


Imho

raise PF.

lead the flop. for a single bet people will be inclined to stay in even though the PF raiser is yet to act. just call a raise if he pops it. now everyone is trapped for 2 bets.

lead the turn with the nuts and hope to get raised.

river is obvious.

as i've said in another strategy thread, i've been getting more aggressive, which means raising hands like QKo in early positon. the table was loose so i wanted to see a cheap hand since i was going to bed soon and did not want to cut into my profits if i ran into a strong hand. terrible reason i know, but suffice to say i know i should be raising PF.
the PF raiser was a weak player, so i did not bet into him since i was not confident in him raising.

as one of the above posters said, i think the right way to play this hand is to raise pre-flop and lead the whole way. who knows, i might find myself getting raised by someone with two pair.

given the way i did play the hand though, i'm still not sure if betting the ace is the right idea. i'd probably have gotten no more than two callers and certainly no raisers. KA probably should raise me, but he was a weak player. if the 9 hits, i think my straight is obvious.
i guess this is just a bump, looking for opinions to see if i should bet that turn, given the (incorrect) way i played the hand.

mrdannyg, i'm agreeing 500% with wrto.

sorry to the rest of you, but i really disagree with all of you. this hand was really badly played, way too passively.

pre-flop: raise. this hand works better in a smaller field.

flop: bet. equity (open-ender plus overcards in a six-way field--you will always win more than 16% of the time [the amount of money you're putting into the pot]).

turn: bet. the bettor was on your immediate left. you need to protect your hand, and by checking, you risk not only losing 6 bets if it's checked through, you also risk giving a free card (hence, not protecting your hand). bet out, hope that the pre-flop bettor raises, and you can three-bet to make the rest of the field face two cold AFTER already putting in a bet (more dead money in the pot makes the pot bigger and makes it more profitable for you. PLUS, when your opponents face two cold, bad draws like two pair and gutshots face unprofitable pot odds, so now whatever they do [fold or call] is profitable for you). plus, you're betting for value.

to those who say you want overcalls, i highly disagree. the pot is already huge, you have a very strong hand, and now your objective shifts to protecting your hand rather than building the pot (SSHE). why give a backdoor flush draw a free card to hit now?? if you have top boat on the turn, or top set on a very ragged board, or the straight WITH the nut flush redraw, a case can be made for going for overcalls, but even then, betting out is correct BECAUSE THE BETTOR IS ON YOUR LEFT. this turn check is terrible, imho.

river: see how much value you lost?



you realize this is terrible, that's good. you can only improve in poker once you stop making excuses (not meaning to sound like an *******).


what? if you weren't confident in him raising, how could you be confident in him betting? so you were predicting that it would get checked around and you were okay with it? i don't understand.


yes.


how you figure that is way beyond me. you're not playing strong/good players who you have a strong read on--you're playing weak low limit players who rarely act logically. some donks raise an ace on the board as a bluff. other donks play ace-rag and just hit two pair. and how the heck do you figure the pre-flop raiser would fold to a raise--woudn't he even raise if he just two-paired up with A-K or A-Q?? this logic makes no sense, and again, i'm sorry if i'm sounding like an *******, but stop making these broad, general assumptions as excuses to play passively.

and one other thing--you're OKAY with having people fold. i don't understand why you want to keep all your customers in. you have a very strong hand, not a monster, but it's still vulnerable, and that's why SSHE advocates protecting your hand once the pot is big, and this pot is already damn big. you need to bet and raise to drop players now, otherwise you'll find yourself losing a big pot to 5-3 that rivers the club flush.


i don't understand how this justifies a turn check at all.


what??? it's obvious that your straight hit if a 9 falls? how many low limit players do you think actually even have the capacity to read hands??


if you haven't gotten my opinion yet, i don't know what to tell you. :-)


again, i don't mean to sound like an ******* ripping your post apart. i think you realize that you played it incorrectly; i'm just explaining to you why your past reasoning was terribly flawed.

really, do yourself a favor and buy SSHE. i'm on my third re-read and i'm still learning stuff. this hand was standard, and you played it wrong. after reading the book, hands like these are meaningless.

good luck,
aseem

Everything akishore said.

Giving away free cards to a flush draw (or sets with redraws) when you have the current nuts is uberdonkish.

Not betting that turn is criminal FPS.

I gotta say, I think a turn bet is definately in order there. I can't see too many people going anywhere after the pre-flop stuff and that flop. The turn card was pertty much exactly what you were looking for, so bet that suckah :wink:

After reexamining the hand I do not beleive I would have checked the flop. I would have lead at the flop. The situation sounds wrong for a check. I still think Overcalls can be fun and profitable this is just the wrong place for it.

After reexamining the hand I do not beleive I would have checked the flop. I would have lead at the flop. The situation sounds wrong for a check. I still think Overcalls can be fun and profitable this is just the wrong place for it.

Imho

thanks to all, especially akishore. you said what i suspected was correct. i was not sure whether your method or mine was more logical in terms of expected value, but after reading your logic, the correct answer is obvious. i have ordered SSHE, and its on its way, along with my Pokertracker registration. I will probably be starting a new thread in strategy detailing my multi-tabling 2/4 progress with these two aides. hopefully akishore, vade, wrto and others resist the urge to hunt me down and punch me in the face and continue to offer valuable advice. i got too excited and nervous at the same time in this hand and misplayed it.

i will now remove my nose from all your asses as it is time for wings and beer. i will buy wings in fact for any consistent and useful repliers to my posts. so make your way down to halifax, nova scotia, and you will be the recipient of $4.50 worth of wings. That's +EV! How can you resist?

You'll be a very happy poker player in two weeks or so. Good investments.