blah. Why do we take out Robertson when he was pitching so well and has been pitching so well all Post Season? Where is the logic in that?


Pretty sick that Mariano got out of that situation, and pretty sad that we couldn't put it away. 2-1 Yankees. HAVE to win this next one. Angels vs CC. Let's do it.

I didn't actually get to see yesterday's game, so I don't know if he did it as much then, but Girardi's love of the mid-inning pitching change annoys me to no end.

So annoying. Why overmanage?

I mean, taking out Hughes and putting in Rivera was a no brainer. That kind of thing is fine. But why take out Robertson when he just got two outs, including a strikeout, and has nobody on base.

But, really, we lost that game when we let them hit a two-run homer off our starter. There's no room for that nonsense in the playoffs. We won 5 straight playoffs games and we didn't let our opponents hit one home run. Yesterday, they hit two and we lost.

We can't afford to blow 3 run leads in the post season. But, that's okay, we had to lose eventually, I guess.

Any takers on tonights game I'm giving 3-2. I am taking the Yankees my $15 for anyones $10 for the Angels;payments on pokerstars. Message me or leave it here and I'll reply with a booked message. I will take up to 2 bets tonight.

A-ROD is SUCH A BEAST, IT'S UNREAL!

What an odd game this has turned out to be. So many weird plays base running and so many odd calls by the umpires.

Oh well. Hopefully CC will cruise through another inning or two and we'll maintain our lead and make it a 3-1 series.

The umpires have been borderline HORRIBLE for the entire playoffs, at least the series I've watched (Yanks-Angels and Sox-Angels). Like, the missed "neighborhood" call the other day was almost surreal, and then tonight they've blown (at least?) two pretty obvious calls, the second one being really really bizarre. Two yankees, standing near 3rd base, neither of them actually on the base. Tag them both and they're both ou---nope, only one of them is out, the other one used his get out of jail free card so he's safe.


Also, are the yankees always this bad at baserunning? It's kind of ridiculous. Like, nobody is ever out on an appeal to third...except tonight. Nobody ever doesn't score from 2nd on a double of the wall....except tonight.

Anyways it's looking pretty likely that it's gonna be Phillies-Yankees, which should be pretty entertaining. Pedro back in NYC? Could be epic.

Umpires were horrible.

No, the Yankees are usually pretty good at base running. We were pretty bad tonight, especially if you include Gardner being thrown out again.

Luckily, we had CC, so it really didn't matter much.

In fairness, the umpires blew that appeal call. Swisher did not leave early. More evidence of how awful the umpires have been. They also blew a tag call at 2nd base on a pickoff just seconds before blowing the appeal at third on the tag up. It's so incredibly bad. Baseball is so facking slow already but instant replay might be in order if the umps are going to be so brutal.

Ahh, I heard it on the radio so I didn't actually see it. The first blown call I was talking about was the pickoff at 2nd, and the second blown call was when everybody was out at 3rd.

The problem with using more instant replay (beyond just home run calls) is that the game doesn't stop like football. If there's a play at 2nd, the ump makes a call, but there's often other runners still in play, and the ball is still completely live. If the ump's call had been opposite, the ensuing action may have been very different. Same with a caught/trapped ball in the outfield - you can't go back and review it because where should you put the runner(s)? Pretty much every call is like that, other than home runs. So like, they could use instant replay if there's 2 outs and nobody on base, but other than that it's kind of impossible.

Even on a line-drive down the line, they can't use instant replay to determine fair/foul because, if a foul call ends up being reversed to fair, then what?

That was the problem a lot of times early on in football, especially regarding the incomplete/fumble call. So officials have learned to let the play proceed as if it's a fumble and then make their call afterwards.

I don't really think ensuing action is as prevalent as you make it out to be.

The caught/trapped ball (with runners on base) is the only one that I see being a big problem.

Also, how accurate are the strike zone boxes on TV? Can we just have those call balls and strikes? Put a big green light and a big red light behind home plate. If it's a ball the green light turns on, if it's a strike the red one.

No way, I feel like almost any call is going to run into problems. I'm trying to come up with good examples, but like everything is an example. I'm not sure where the disconnect is here (with you and me on this issue), but runners are constantly trying to get to the next base, and the ball is usually live immediately following any kind of play, and all sorts of things happen. It would end up with an awful lot of an automatic extra base, or an automatic extra 2 bases or something.

In football it works because there's an effective 'time out' after every single play. You can break the game down into snaps, with each snap meaning the beginning of a new play. In baseball, you can't break the game down like that, because even during the 'time out' between pitches, the runners and the ball are still live and the game only stops for brief moments when somebody is granted time out or the inning ends.

On out/safe calls where instant replay might be needed, the fielder is always going to have the ball in his possession, so no, runners aren't constantly trying to get to the next base.

But let's say that's the case, what happens?

Scenario:

Runner at first, nobody out. Runner stealing, batter bunts the ball. Third baseman charges the ball and makes the throw to first and it's extremely close. Meanwhile the runner that was stealing tries to make it all the way to third.

Does the first baseman stop to hear the out/safe call before making the throw to third?

Is your concern that the batter would try to advance to 2nd if he was safe?

The only issue I see is if the umpire calls him out and then the first baseman throws the ball away. But I can't think of a play that happens a lot that instant replay can't sort out.

What if there's one out before the play. If the first baseman makes the out at first, then he'd be unlikely to make a risky throw to third because there would be two outs. But if he misses the play, then he'd want to try to get the man at third, because with only one out, the man at third can score on a fly ball to the outfield.

That's just one example, but it gets iffy and complicated fast. Base running can be pretty deep on a few occasions, even though it's somewhat simple for the most part.

No. You're telling me that the first baseman is waiting for the umpire's call before deciding to throw to third and I just don't see that.

I've seen plays like that where the throw is made even though the batter/runner is called out and that ends the inning. Players aren't waiting for the call.

Besides all that, the idea that baseball is a continuous game with only stops between innings is one of the craziest notions I've ever heard. There are absolutely very distinctive stops to a play.

I don't know, I haven't played baseball in a while.

I guess it would make sense if the umpires had the choice to review a play at their discretion, and there discretion was based on whether or not the call going the other way would have led to a radically different outcome. This would include home runs and a lot of plays that involved only one runner. So, the Swisher calls last night (the pickoff at second base and the tag up) could have been reviewed and changed (they were both wrong). But something odd like a trapped ball would be forced to stay as ruled on the play.

It would slow down the game a lot, and baseball is already a slow sport, so I don't see it happening. I don't see MLB sacrificing viewers by slowing down the game and sacraficing a little tradition for a more accurately called game.

I don't buy this premise either. Do it like football and give each manager a limited amount of challenges (maybe just two and you don't lose it if you're right) and put a replay umpire in the booth. Spend two minutes getting the call right. How much time is spent with the manager out there yelling at the umpire? I think the umpires are good enough where there wouldn't be that many plays that go to replay anyway.

Well I think you misinterpreted my meaning somewhat. I didn't mean that runners were always succeeding in taking an extra base, or that they attempt it often. My point was that it is always on their mind (if they're a decent baserunner), and they will move up whenever they see an opportunity. They're also constantly bluffing, trying to take the fielders' attention away from another runner perhaps, or to try to force an unnecessary throw across the diamond. Basically my point was just that the ball is usually live following a play, and using instant replay for those types of plays (where the ball definitely did not go over the fence) would dramatically change the pace and the nature of the game.




Well in your scenario, the 1b should make the throw anyways, if there are no outs. Why the hell wouldn't he? The play at first is irrelevant to the other runner, with no outs.

Here's an example of how a very similar scenario would get screwed up royally by instant replay:

Same situation, but 2 outs. Close play at first, ump calls him out, so the runner who was stealing second pulls up on his way to third, since the third out was recorded and everybody is heading back to their dugouts to switch sides. Instant replay then reverses the call, and the batter is safe at first. The runner though...would there have been a play at third? Who knows? It never had a chance to happen, because the inning had appeared to be over.

The only way to reconcile this would be to have everybody play every single "close" out as if it was fair or safe or whatever, and then take it back afterwards if necessary. And that would be....awful.



With no outs it's immaterial - he is always going to make the throw if he thinks he can get an out. But with 2 outs there wouldn't even be a play at third. The 1b hears "OUT" the instant after he catches the ball, and the inning is over. Any runners left on base are now gone....until the call gets reversed and everything gets fucked, and nobody knows what base the other runner should be on. Should we flip a coin to decide if he was gonna be safe or out at third? There's just no way to make it work.

I mean, I really think I'm right on this. Like, you came up with a reasonably common scenario and showed how instant replay wouldn't hurt the play, and I simply changed the number of outs in that scenario and it immediately becomes impossible to reverse a call.

Oh hey, look at that, you made my point. Thanks.



You watch football, right? Sometimes the referee blows a play dead when he shouldn't have. The solution is to make things as right as they can, not to just pretend an error wasn't made.

In your scenario, what do you think the hitting team would prefer: the out to stand and their inning is over or the out call to be overturned with the downside being that the runner that was going to third has to go back to second?

That would make the game unwatchable. One of the beautiful things about baseball is the way the game is paced. Pitch after pitch after pitch, and then finally something crazy-exciting happens. Overturning calls and requiring automatic advances or retreats on the basepaths would detract from that.

Baseball is an imperfect sport. Balls and strikes are never absolutes.

This is what I should have used as an example:


Your exact scenario. No outs. Bunted up the third base line with the runner going, the catcher comes out and fields the ball and on a close play the batter is called out at first. The runner stealing second (let's call him Runner) is easily into third standing up, and he thinks the catcher might be snoozing, having come out to field the ball and not realized that there is now a man on third and nobody guarding home. Runner makes a move to go, but realizes that it's a bad idea. But...he's gone too far, and he's got himself caught in a goddam rundown like an idiot. Anyways he's out. Soooo, then they go ahead and reverse the call at first on instant replay. The batter (now safe at first) would surely argue that he would have moved up to second on the pickle, but it's not automatic or anything. So...what happens?

My point is not that there is no reasonable answer to the questions about where the runners should be after a reversed call - my point is that reversing those calls and forcing the runners to do a certain thing would detract from the enjoyment I get from watching a game, in an extremely major way. It would fundamentally alter certain strategies that have been bred and studied and experimented on etc etc for the last 150 years or whatever.

You make it seem like this sort of thing would be happening every couple of innings when I think one of these crazy scenarios we're coming up with would happen once every couple of weeks.



There's really no realistic scenario you can come up with where not overturning the wrong call is a better result for the team on the wrong side of the call. Maybe it's not the ideal result, but it's a better result.

I also think that the "we should do it this way because that's how we've always done it" philosophy is a bad way to run a sport/business/society.


But I think we've probably reached the agree to disagree stage of the discussion.

Well I think we're definitely also looking at it from different perspectives. I'm not too concerned about the team getting screwed by bad calls. Bad calls are damn aggravating of course, but I'm not looking at it from a 'make it right' point of view. I'm looking at it as: 'this would make the game seem much less 'natural' (for lack of a better term).' Not that one of us is correct and the other is incorrect though.





I disagree to disagree!

But I think we can agree that the Yankees need to lose.

Something we can all agree on! Well, except stupid LLY.

Yaaaba Daaaaba Dooooooo!

In football when pass interferance happens they stop play and spot the ball at the place of the penalty, they don't allow further yards or a touchdown and that works out pretty good. If a legitimate rule is made people will accept it and get comfortable with it, even the fans.

There are some pretty obscure rules out there and this could just be another one of those rules the umpires have to check their rulebooks to confirm and maybe the rule would be having the player sent to second base as you elluded to, while the player who was infact out in the run down is out. I don't know what the best "rule" here would be, but I'm sure if enough good baseball minds were put together to decide on one, it would end up being accepted since its set in stone and equal across the board to all teams.

Also why should it come to this are there many professional players or teams who do leave bases unguarded? If the catcher fielded the ball and quickly ran back to the plate to his position there wouldn't be this problem in the 1st place and now runners get to be safe on first and third instead of 1 out and a man on second. I don't see any fundamental strategies changing here aside from a catcher intentionally trying to pretend to be out of position to dare players to run on him and creating this out at home, who does that; a little league playing the outfield daring another kid to try to score on him while he's running he ball in. It would be humorous, but I don't see much time spent on a tactic like this in the MLB. (just my 2 cents)

The Yankees are so dominant right now, I just cant see the Phillies or the Dodgers putting up much of a fight.

I hope Burnett can seal the deal tomorrow night.

WS: Yankees in 5.

You just keep thinking that. I don't know what you have been watching over the last 3 years to think winning 4 of 7 against philly is going to be easy. I have plenty of respect for the Yankees, they are good ball team, I actually want them in WS because it will make for the best series...but going though Philly is going to be anyhing but easy!!

The Yankees are really, really good, but they've also been somewhat lucky in a few games this postseason. You know who else has been really, really good this postseason? The Phillies.

ARod has been great; the Phillies have three guys with a playoff OPS above 1100.

Have you not been watching the NL playoffs?

I'm not saying I think the Phillies will win, but it seems odd to say that the reigning world champs who have been rolling over teams these playoffs won't put up much of a fight.

The Yankees have been a bit lucky, but they've also put themselves into positions where they're able to get lucky. Meaning, they've had good bullepens, good clutch hitting, and good defensiveness awareness.




The Phillies are going to be a difficult team. We can beat them, but we're going to have to play our best to beat them. We're going to need to have everybody in the lineup hitting (yes, Swisher, that means you too!). We're going to need AJ to have a strong start. We're going to need Hughes to be dominant, and we're going to need Joba to be the old Joba out of the bullpen.

We have the team to win the series, but we're going to need that team to preform. It's not going to be a cakewalk. I watched the game last night, and Philly looked pretty scary offensively. I don't look forward to having to deal with a lot of those hitters.



But, man, we're getting way ahead of ourselves. We have a game tonight, and we REALLY want to win it. This absolutely CAN'T go to 7. It would ruin our rotation. We need AJ to finish the job tonight so CC can get plenty of rest and be ready to pitch 3 games in the World Series if necessary.

The Yankees, more than anyone, know that being up 3-1 is nothing, it's one game away from being only up 3-2, and it's two games away from game 7.

It seems impossible the umpires could be any worse. How hard is it to call 1st base?????

Yes I have been watching the NL playoffs, and the Phillies have been very good, no question.
I just have two points:
-The Dodgers arent nearly the team the Angels are, so while they rolled over them, I cant believe they would have that to the Angels.
-The Phillies have excellent hitting but the Yankees have the best hitting in the league. Where I think we ultimately win out is starting pitching (obviously AJ is highly questionable), the Phillies dont have one starter that won more than 12 games this season.

I suppose it all comes down to who shows up, I guess thats why they play the games. We shall see

Hitting stats:
Team LEAGUE G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
1. New York Yankees AL 162 5660 915 1604 325 21 244 881 2703 663 1014 111 28 .362 .478 .283
2. Philadelphia Phillies NL 162 5578 820 1439 312 35 224 788 2493 589 1155 119 28 .334 .447 .258



Amen. That AB was PITIFUL!!!



The question is, you start CC or Andy if no game Saturday night?

I was on full blown monkey tilt after the umpire blew that strike three call in the 7th. It wasn't even borderline, it was just a strike. (I realize that we don't know what would've happened if that was the second out and maybe they still score six runs in the inning, but when you get that next out, which would've been the third out, before they score any runs...that didn't help my tilt. Nor did bringing in Oliver.)

But I guess it's just a good thing Jeter has zero range going to his left. Do Yankee fans realize that any decent shortstop not only stops Vlad's 12-hopper up the middle, but actually makes the play?

I was also hoping they would leave Weaver in for the 9th instead of bringing in Fuentes.

And you have to send Willits on that fly ball. It's freakin' Mariano Rivera out there; you're really going to count on getting a hit to drive him in?

What a game. Angels have to be kicking themselves over blowing game 2.

Do you really think their pitching is a problem? Cliff Lee has been the best pitcher in the post season. With Hamels, and the ability to plug Happ, Pedro, and Blanton as they see fit, I think to argue against a staff that clearly has flexibility to go along with quality may be futile.

I specifically referred to starters because the Phillies 4 starters in the post season have a combined ERA of 3.75, the Yankee 3 starters are 2.7. And my theory is that they have not faced hitting as good as the Yankees. I.E. starters will be exiting games earlier and pressuring the bullpen more. We'll see if that bullpen holds up. Incidentally, the top 6 Phillies relievers have an ERA of 4.17 (this doesnt include Pedro, as he is included in the starters), and top 6 Yankee relievers are 2.43. But like I said, we'll just have to wait and see.

no baseball series between two competent teams is ever that much of a mismatch. The Yankees are better than Philly but not by much. And they still need to beat the Angels first (which I think they will do in game 6).

also, yeah Jeter is great, but most SS at least get close to that ball and some definitely make the play.

These points are spot on!

Figgins .105
Abreu .143
Hunter .316
Guerrero .304
Morales .200
Izturis .111
Rivera .143
Mathis .600
Aybar .294

Wow, that sucks.


Aybar must bat leadoff.
Mathis must start.
Abreu must get a blast.
Rivera must get a blast.
Kendrick must get in the game (I think he's starting).

Petite's ERA is higher at home than on the road (~4.5 at home).
All 8 victories over the Yanks in the playoffs have been come from behind.

Good luck Halos.

If we get to game 7, I think Sabathia's good run could come to an end.

I disagree. Figgins is amazing at leadoff. Basically, here's a results-oriented example: Back in friggin game 7 of the 2004 ALCS when we capped off the Greatest Sports Comeback Ever, Johnny Damon had been batting about .013, but Francona stuck with him, and he hit a 2nd-inning grand slam in game 7 (and then another hr to put the nail in the coffin).

I remember I was also praying for Tito to finally pull Mark Goddam Bellhorn for Pokey Reese since Bellhorn was hitting nothing and Pokey was the best-fielding-second-baseman like ever. That, until Bellhorn hit the game-winning home run in game 1 of the World Series.

Bottom line, unless Figgins has been hurt (?), I definitely keep him in the 1 or 2 spot. Maybe Aybar 2nd and drop Abreu to 6thish.



It seems reasonable that he should.



Yep. A game 7 would be lots of fun.



That game 7 in '04 was on my mind because the 5-year-anniversary of that game was a couple days ago, an anniversary that did not go unnoticed in the Boston papers. Posting it here because it's a good article and also obviously needles the Yankees.





http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_...nniversary.html

As long as I'm being a nostalgic pussy, I think that probably of all of those games (best week of life ever), Dave Roberts, Papi's consecutive walk-offs, Frankenschilling, Foulke's perfection, even the moment we finally won the WS, the single moment that I screamed the loudest and freaked out the hardest was when Johnny 'Girly-arm' Damon hit that grand slam.

Moral of the story: Figgins is due.

Aybar
Figgins
Hunter
Guerrero
Abreu
Morales
Rivera
Kendrick
Mathis

This is what I'd like to see.

And we're going to the World Series.

It's such a huge relief not to have to go to game 7 and use CC again in this series. Now we're going to have a well rested CC be able to pitch 3 games in the post season.

It's not going to be an easy series, but certainly the Yankees are the favorite. Now it's their time to step up and win this thing.

It could be an epic WS...we are going to agree to to disagree on the favorite, reguardless of who is the favorite the edge is so small that in 7 games it won't matter much, we'll know for sure in 9 days. I will be at game 2 in NY and games 3 & 5 in Philly.

Ah, lucky man. I hope it's not too cold.

I was the same way with game 7. I did not want one any way. I say Yankees in 6, but it should be a good series.
Now we need to finish what we started

If I was forced to make a prediction with a gun to my head, I would really like to know how I ended up in that situation.

I mean, I would probably say Yankees in 6.

Regardless of who wins, just give me seven games and I'll be happy.

Well, I guess that's not necessarily true. If every game was a 10-0 blowout, that wouldn't be fun.

Ok, here's what I want to see:

- Seven games all decided by one run.
- Two great pitching duels
- Two slugfests
- One extra inning game
- Ryan Howard and Alex Rodriguez matching each other home run for home run
- Game 7 to be either a walk-off win or the tying and winning runs left stranded on base

That's not too much to ask, is it?

That'd be pretty good, but I'll take 4 10-0 Yankee blowout victories, thank you very much.

They need to start the season earlier and have less ridiculous extra days off during the LDS and LCS series. The World Series should not start on October goddam 28 unless there was some sort of natural disaster which pushes it back. Absolutely terrible, terrible schedule-making this year. We should be at game 5 or 6 right now, not waiting for the Series to start.

I think one of the reasons for this was the WBC, which is unnecessary.

They added a lot of extra off days this post season. I dont think they started the season any later then normal.

I'm pretty sure that change was actually made a few years ago. The Red Sox season started on April 6 and ended on October 4. I think Slink is right about the WBC.

The extra days off in the playoffs are also a big part of it though, obviously.