Does anyone else in the league hit more HRs on 0-2 counts than Molina or Sandoval?





...oh, and 2 games back btw

do you ever post after losses? just curious.

were you just curious or were you trying to make a not so subtle point?

I post whenever I feel like it. Maybe that is more after wins, maybe more after losses...i dont understand why it matters.

I think now that the Giants are only two games back again you can definitely say that they are still in the playoff hunt. Call me crazy but ive always heard that good pitching and clutch hitting wins ballgames.

I wasn't necessarily trying to be subtle. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to pick a fight, you're actually starting to grow on me a little...but don't let it go to your head.

I'm just saying that all you seem to do is post these guys after wins, but you don't show up after 11-0 losses to the D-bags.

And yes, clutch hitting will win you ball games, however the Giants don't do it nearly enough to be a playoff team...just ask Barry Zito.

He pitched pretty well tonight. Not to mention he has a 1.80 ERA in his last eight starts.

If the Giants can continue to play good, solid baseball, we could be a serious threat in the playoffs thanks to our pitching staff. (That's if we make the playoffs.)

Great win today!!!

My point wasn't that he's not pitching well. My point was that the Giants don't get those clutch hits with Z on the mound. I'm sure he's having flashbacks of Oakland.

And going into this weekend I would've said that there's no way they can make the playoffs, much less be any kind of threat. This weekend's series however, makes me think they do still have a legitimate shot. They just need to stay consistent, and they haven't been able to do so all year.

I will admit, I had felt it was over even though it was only 4 games after that horrible loss to the Rocks in extras. Fortunately, we got to see the D-Backs for 3 games (barely won 2) and then put together a great full series for once against the Rockies. It's nice to be back in it, but we have a ways to go. I'm not sold on the bullpen or our offense just yet...but I'll take a tie for the wild card lead this late in the season any day!

Brad Penny has been picked up by the Giants.

Good move I think...he should pitch a lot better in the N.L. and be a decent 5th starter.

Penny is a dbag but he probably should be a minor to moderate upgrade over Martinez. Not sure why Sabean is focused on upgrading his 5th starter when there are more glaring needs though.

My fav commentary on Penny via Larry Bowa this spring:

"Is this the same Penny that never went to meetings, that came late, left early, was never in shape, always had an excuse when things didn't go right, didn't help the young kids at all? Coaches get on players when they're lazy and don't work. I think he should worry about getting hitters out in the American League East and not worry about me."

<3 Larry Bowa

The fact that dodger fans hate him puts one in the plus column for me. I'm not really concerned about the work ethic issues because he is just a rental player...if it doesn't work out its not that big of a deal.

I have a crazy feeling that Brad Penny and Brian Wilson are gonna get along just fine.

no. I want a player with a strong work ethic that will make the Giants a better team.



LOL a big +1 on that.

Are you sure you don't want to go back to the days where one player thought he was bigger than the team?

I'm pretty sure Sabean could sign some random guy off the streets and Tom would love the move. You have to admire someone with such blind loyalty to a team.

I'm very sure. I can't help but love Bonds because I grew up watching him play. But, his attitude and roid use lead to many distractions that really, really hurt the Giants as a team. You already know that though.

And Tom, please stop making Giants fans look stupid. This isn't a good move, just like the Freddy Sanchez trade. asdflkjhasdfjkhsad sabean.

All i can say is wow. Usually, what you say makes sense....i may not agree with it, but i understand what u r saying; however, i cant understand the logic behind your post here.

Best case scenario: Penny is a good #5 starter and an upgrade over Martinez or any other stiff they throw out there.

Worse case scenario: Penny performs badly and he leaves in the offseason. Oh, and we are out a little bit of money...but we arent signing the checks so who cares?

I just don't see Penny ruining the clubhouse chemistry. With Bonds, the Giants put up with his sometimes surly behavior because he was the star player. If Penny acts out in any way, he will be gone because hes just a rental, simple as that. Plus, I think Penny will be on his best behavior as he will be pitching for a contract. Also, don't forget that rosters will expand soon as well, so its not like penny will be taking someone else's spot.

I would take a Barry Bonds over Manny Ramirez every god damn day of the week. Bonds may have been a surly sonofabitch, but when he stepped between the lines he always gave his best effort. There is no way you can say the same about Ramirez, especially after the Boston fiasco.

For someone who posts on the internet a lot, you seem to care a lot about appearances

I would much rather have a bat than a number 5 starter. Penny wont even start in the playoffs if we make it. It's a horrible move man.

Could you specify what you're talking about exactly? What was the Boston fiasco as it pertains to between the lines?

Forgive Tom, he not much into facts...

a. Manny OPS'd something incredibly good his last few weeks in Boston before the trade.**** I'm sure Tom is stuck on that dp ball he didn't run out though. Being known as one of the players who spends the most time on preparation and film study is also pointless I guess, as is the way our younger hitters benefited from seeing how serious he took hitting.

b. Lol at Barry 'giving it his best effort' every time he took the field. Honestly? Barry was known to half ass his way down the line just as often as Manny has, and most Giants fans defended him by saying they wouldn't want him to hurt himself anyway. Now somehow Barry has turned into a Charlie Hustle type?

Lol, I am halfway convinced Tom is not real and is a very clever fake account sent here to confound us baseball fans. I have a hard time believing someone could actually watch the game through such orange and black tinted glasses (other than Mike Krukow that is).


**** His numbers in July prior to the trade: 75 at-bats, 26 hits, four homers, 16 RBI, a .473 on-base percentage and a 1.060 OPS.....How dare he quit on them like that!!!!!

now, look here patrick. I like Manny. You know where you stand with Manny and you know what you get. Both him and Bonds gave the effort they wanted to give. But Manny is still no Bonds as good as he is. When Bonds was in his steroid hey-day, I was surprised when he made an out. I have never been able to say that about any other baseball player (even a Pujols or whoever). Bonds was a baseball god, a science-fueled force of nature that got on base at a 55%+ clip.

Let's not forget how awesome he was just because almost no one likes the guy. So while all the stuff about effort in Tom's post was meaningless, the first line is correct. I would take Bonds over Manny any day of the week. It's not like either guy has ever been great for chemistry (and chemistry is so overrated anyway).

PMJ: Stealing my thunder



Cane: I took out that part of Tom’s post because there’s obviously no question Bonds was the better player. We were focusing on the part about Bonds over Manny based on effort.

fair enough. In terms of effort, I would say Bonds was actually alright as a Pirate and then slowly deteriorated to the Manny level as a Giant.

Of course, he was always a pain in the ass. Even in college at ASU Bonds was a huge prick.

What JJJ said; no question Barry is the superior player/hitter, but to say he always played hard was incorrect.

We're missing the big picture here.

If not for the playoff hunt, Sabes would have been gone after this year. Now he will probably get a nice long term renewal. Best thing to happen to the other NL West teams imo.

Heh, he's def trying to do everything he can to look productive enough to keep, that's for sure. Personally I think the Giants would be better off with a different coaching staff as well, but after this year I doubt anything will change. They will maybe get rid of Lansford but I can't see them replacing anyone else unless they completely tank.

If my memory serves me, I believe there was some controversy about him sitting out because of an injury when some people believed he could have been playing.

When manny was putting up those numbers in his last month in boston, he had already played himself out of town. He didn't want to be there and he forced the Red Sox to make a deal where they had to get 50 cents on the dollar for him while picking up some or all of his contract. As a fan, stuff like that pisses me off because it affects the present and future prospects for a team. Imagine if he had done it to a smaller market team...it would cost that team years of rebuilding.

One more thing for now...

I took a shot at PMJackson because of what he said about Bonds being a player who thought he was above the team. I disagree with that assessment and I thought it was rather hypocritical especially considering his love for Manny. Unlike Ramirez, Bonds gave consistent effort, played hurt, and never forced himself off a team.

I hope that clears up my original statement...I realize that the "giving his best effort" line is meaningless....sometimes what i mean to say and what i type are two very different things.

You took a shot at me? I didn't even notice lol.

I don't love Manny by any means. I think he is a great hitter, but he is a proven cheater and he isn't producing too much now. If you watched a Dodgers game with me, you wouldn't hear me saying many nice things about him lately. Even if he starts hitting well, I'll never forgive him for tainting what could have been a great year. Not to say they can't pull off some magic and win the WS, but even if they do, the whole steroids thing will take something away from the accomplishment.

I'm pretty much down to Ethier, Kemp, Wolf, and Kershaw as Dodgers I don't ridicule, and Kershaw only gets a pass because he is young.

I still disagree with you when you say Barry gave a consistent effort; he took his ABs seriously and would become a better baserunner when it mattered, but he also didn't run out perceived easy outs and didn't always give his best effort in LF. So in other words, much like Manny. As for never forcing himself off a team, don't you think that is exactly what he did with the Giants? Except, where Manny wanted to leave Boston***, Barry wanted to keep playing but they didn't want him.

***I also don't really agree with your assessment of Manny's departure from Boston; this Bill Simmons article does the subject more justice then I ever could (ignore the never did steroids parts though ) : http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=manny

I'm a long time Bill Simmons reader and i think i read this article once upon a time. Rereading it makes me hate manny a little less and hate boras even more. seriously, that guy is the devil, tho it doesn't excuse manny because he hired him.

Sorry to disagree, but in the second half of Bonds career, he never gave it his all on a ground ball or double play ball. I cant count how many times I saw him jogging nonchalant to second when he could of easily been trying to break it up.

Penny looked pretty good tonight, he's still a dbag though.

lol yes on both parts.

Another note: Buster Posey got called up today....does that mean his arbitration clock starts now? If so, is there any way he is NOT the starting catcher next year?

I would never say Penny was a "great" move, but I think it was a good move. Unless you really follow the Giants, you don't understand how bad that #5 spot was this year in the rotation. His one game he pitched tonight could make him worth it compared to our other outings in the #5 spot. Our glaring weakness is, of course, our offense though and I just don't understand why we didn't make a move to get a big bat. Hell, Thome would have been better than Sanchez and Garko, imo! I don't mind our acquisitions, but I really wish we would have gone out and got that big bat. It's really nice to be in the playoff race this late, but when your best hope (other than Sandoval) to hit a bomb is a 40 year old Molina, I'm afraid we have problems. COME ON LINCECUM, CAIN, ZITO, SANCHEZ, AND PENNY! GIVE UP 0 RUNS THE REST OF THE YEAR AND WE'RE IN!

What team doesn't have issues with it's 5th starter? Not many, if any. Most teams struggle to field 4 quality starting pitchers, let alone 5. It's just more obvious with you guys because the Giants other 4 each have had good to great years (well, Sanchez is pretty inconsistent), so the 5th starter woes look even worse then they are. No team gets 162 quality starts a year.

He's an upgrade though for sure. I just don't think their playoff chances hinge on getting a little more production out of the 5th starter spot. (Which you seem to agree with)

I think we lead the league in popups and weak groundballs to shortstop

You're right PMJackson. I agree with you that a 5th starter is not what's going to do it for us, but it doesn't hurt to upgrade that spot if you have the chance. I think the main thing that most people here (giant fan or not) agree with is that the Penny move was ok, but it didn't address our most pressing needs.

Yup, as a quasi-Giants fan (I probably watch 90% of their games being a huge baseball fan in the Bay Area), I agree with you. Every move Sabean has made has made it a little bit better, the question will be if it's enough.

let's all hope the Rockies stop winning. Trying to take advantage of a Nats/Mets/Nats stretch here....

beat the nats imo

The Reds gave me false hope when they had a 3-1 lead today...Damn those Rockies

I'm pretty sure the only teams that beat the Rockies are the Giants and the Dodgers. IIRC, they do have a series coming up vs STL but I think it is at COL so they'll probably take 2/3.

Side note, if the Giants have any sort of memory at all, Prince Fielder will get hit in the first series next year for that little stunt after his walk off. As much as I enjoy watching people show up the Giants, we really don't need endzone celebrations in baseball.

I thought the same thing. I hope Cain or Lincecum puts a fastball in his ear hole, that fat phuck.

Bumgarner taking Lincecum's start tonight because TL is having back issues. I'm looking forward to seeing Bumgarner pitch but the TL injury issue might be something to be concerned about for you Giants fans. Back problems for a guy that puts that much torque into his delivery are not easy to deal with it, a lot like back issues for a golfer. Plus he had lost some velocity over his last few starts...

Or they just want him to pitch vs the Dodgers. If they start him Fri, then he would also be available to start the finale in the Rockies series.

As for Bumgarner, even if he does well I'm not sure I would bring him up this early if I was the GM. I wasn't a big fan of the Dodgers rushing Kershaw though either. I wanted to see him pitch, but I didn't think it was the best long term decision for him.

baaaaaaaaaaah that's not news I want to hear. +1 on Lincecum's back being a concern and +111 on bringing up Bumgarner too early. I reallllllllly don't want him to be rushed. CK seems to be pitching well this season though. So meh, only time will tell.

See I have hard time agreeing with you guys on this one. I don't understand why it's ok for pitcher's to do it (i.e. K-Rod and Brian Wilson, even my boy Dennis Eckersley back in the day with the finger point), but it's not ok for hitters to "endzone dance." If we draw the line for hitters, then we have to draw it for pitcher's as well. The only difference is, pitcher's have a weapon if they get pissed off after being shown up...batter's don't.

With that being said, Fielder did cross the line...but he's a jackass as it is.

it's simple, the unknown rules and codes of baseball. I have no idea why they are going to do it, probably just from a standpoint of don't taunt us like that. Bleh, I hate him anyways and I would of loved to see him get drilled, even if he didn't fat around.