AimHigher
Friday, January 23rd, 2009, 5:23 PM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) -
Poker-Stars Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($11.50)
MP ($12.25)
Hero (Button) ($11.40)
SB ($10.70)
BB ($10)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 5

, 5
2 folds,
Hero raises to $0.40,
SB raises to $1.60,
1 fold,
Hero raises to $4, SB calls $2.40
Flop: ($8.10) 4

, J

, 2
(2 players)SB bets $6.70 (All-In), Hero?
Villain was 18/16/2.5 over 110 hands and seemed competent, with a 3-bet percentage of 6%. Typically I'd fold to the 3-bet but he had 3-bet me 3 out of the 4 times I had opened the button on his SB. Do we think 4-bet/folding here is ok or are we committing too much of our stack?
mtdesmoines
Friday, January 23rd, 2009, 8:42 PM
QUOTE (AimHigher @ Friday, January 23rd, 2009, 5:23 PM)

Villain was 18/16/2.5 over 110 hands and seemed competent, with a 3-bet percentage of 6%. Typically I'd fold to the 3-bet but he had 3-bet me 3 out of the 4 times I had opened the button on his SB. Do we think 4-bet/folding here is ok or are we committing too much of our stack?
Yeah, I still think you got anxious tho. 55 isn't the greatest hand to go to war with PF vs an aggro.
pokerinc
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 12:10 AM
I rarely advocate this play but I'd 4 bet shovel over his 3 bet if he's 3 betting that often. Put it to him, if he calls it's way likely a coinflip and you have good FE.
TrueAce13
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 11:18 AM
After 3betting most of your button opens, I don't mind 4betting, but I definitely think you should be willing to stack off on a wide range of flops, such as this one
Sens-Eh
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 5:22 PM
Hero gets up and finds another table. This is 10NL there is no reason for you to deal with this guy, when there are so many tables filled with so much easier decisions. No way you need to be at a 10NL table where 4 betting 5,5 is something you need to even think of doing.
trystero
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 7:59 PM
QUOTE (Sens-Eh @ Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 8:22 PM)

Hero gets up and finds another table. This is 10NL there is no reason for you to deal with this guy, when there are so many tables filled with so much easier decisions. No way you need to be at a 10NL table where 4 betting 5,5 is something you need to even think of doing.
^^^
Pdiddydog
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 8:02 PM
QUOTE (Sens-Eh @ Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 6:22 PM)

Hero gets up and finds another table. This is 10NL there is no reason for you to deal with this guy, when there are so many tables filled with so much easier decisions. No way you need to be at a 10NL table where 4 betting 5,5 is something you need to even think of doing.
Ya I couldn't disagree more. I don't know your regular stakes AimHigher but if you want to get better you’re going to have to play tougher games and add more things to your repertoire. As long as you’re not risking too much of your roll and have the discipline to leave when/if you lose your investment then taking shots is fine IMO. To answer your question, if you think villain's range is really wide here, I think shipping it in pre-flop is the best option and it will save you a lot of headaches. As played it is entirely read dependant.
trystero
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 8:08 PM
Why stay? To practice 4-betting small pairs? Profitable poker involves game-selection. There's no reason to stay in a bad game - and this is one.
Pdiddydog
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 8:26 PM
QUOTE (trystero @ Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 9:08 PM)

Why stay? To practice 4-betting small pairs? Profitable poker involves game-selection. There's no reason to stay in a bad game - and this is one.
Yes this is true but you're not going to get any better by playing with weaker players all the time. Overall you should be playing in good games but if you want to get better you're going to have to move up in stakes and play better players or you will never improve. If that's not your goal and you just want to steadily win and not move up in stakes then that's your choice.
mtdesmoines
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 8:53 PM
I see the "game selection" / "villain selection" argument starting, and you know, I hate to see us encouraging players to avoid action tables. I mean really, "avoid this guy because he's action?" No. Way. In. Hell. Action players are saying, "Lemme give you my chips, Lemme give you my chips, Lemme give you my chips, Lemme give you my chips!!!!"
Pdiddydog
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 9:02 PM
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 9:53 PM)

I see the "game selection" / "villain selection" argument starting, and you know, I hate to see us encouraging players to avoid action tables. I mean really, "avoid this guy because he's action?" No. Way. In. Hell. Action players are saying, "Lemme give you my chips, Lemme give you my chips, Lemme give you my chips, Lemme give you my chips!!!!"
Again I have no problem playing with bad players most of the time but you are still going to take shots when you play poker. By taking a shot I mean risking no more then 10% of your roll, by playing better players you will get better and eventually they will seem like fish to you.
albertoflamingo
Saturday, January 24th, 2009, 11:31 PM
QUOTE (AimHigher @ Friday, January 23rd, 2009, 6:23 PM)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) -
Poker-Stars Converter Tool from
FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($11.50)
MP ($12.25)
Hero (Button) ($11.40)
SB ($10.70)
BB ($10)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 5

, 5
2 folds,
Hero raises to $0.40,
SB raises to $1.60,
1 fold,
Hero raises to $4, SB calls $2.40
Flop: ($8.10) 4

, J

, 2
(2 players)SB bets $6.70 (All-In), Hero?
Villain was 18/16/2.5 over 110 hands and seemed competent, with a 3-bet percentage of 6%.
Typically I'd fold to the 3-bet but he had 3-bet me 3 out of the 4 times I had opened the button on his SB. Do we think 4-bet/folding here is ok or are we committing too much of our stack?
I think if he's a thinking player the bolded part actually argues against four betting here. If he understands and is aware of the current table dynamic, I think his range for three betting blind against button becomes stronger, especially since he's doing it with an extremely high frequency here. If you are gonna four bet, which I guess isn't too bad, I think I'd rather just shove here because there's essentially no great flops for us. Flops tough, but I think we have to find a fold somewhere here if we think the villain can tie his shoes.
chgocubs99
Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 5:04 AM
If you're smart enough to know that you should be table selecting, you are smart enough to be able to adjust to different styles of play when you move up. Beat your current game for the best possible winrate at the level you are playing. There are adjustments that will need to be made to do this, including table selecting. When you move up and the competition changes, you'll adjust again.
SCS
Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 5:14 AM
I don't think it's necessary to 4 bet light at these stakes. If you do, you should do it early. If you wait until villain has 3 bet you a few times, then it won't work as often. The more someone 3 bets you the stronger their 3 betting range becomes, because they expect you to play back at them. They don't expect you to 4 bet them early in the session when they've only 3 bet you once or twice though. 4 betting in this situation gets a lot more respect, which is why if you expect someone is 3 betting you light, ie in a CO vs BTn situation, then calling a 3 bet and cr flop with AA or KK is better than 4 betting, especially early in the session.
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