Hadn't been at the table too long, but reads may not be too important here. Table had been pretty tight - usually one raiser and 2 or 3 to the flop. Then this hand comes along ...

3 limpers, so I call with 44 from the CO. River calls and BB calls. 6 players - wow didn't expect that at this table. So far, so good.

Not a bad flop, and it gets checked around to me. With 5 opponents, wasn't sure I should bet. I had no idea what everyone might have and had no clue what I would do on the next card if I get a few callers and an overcard to my 4s is dealt on the turn. It is probably wrong, but since I had no plan for the rest of the hand, I check.

The turn is my happy card. Everyone checks and the player before me bets. What do I do? Call, hoping several other call, or raise and knock almost everyone else out?

Thanks - Opie



Full Tilt Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with 4 4
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: Q 2 3 (6.5SB, 6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: 4 (3.25BB, 6 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, 4 folds, MP3 calls.

River: K (7.25BB, 2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 7.25BB

I think a flop bet has merit. I dunno. The problem is that your hand doesn't rate to win at showdown very often in a 6-way pot, so I think we should bet to try to fold out as many overcard hands as possible. 67, T9, etc would be nice to fold both. If they saw your hand, they'd be getting pretty close to the proper odds to peel with a 6-outer, so making them fold incorrectly is a good result for us.

I play the turn and river the same.

Could be wrong but wouldn't overcalls be more desirable here? A slew of checks often brings a pot steal attempt, and how worried are we about someone improving? Again, I could be wrong.

I don't know. How do we know people won't call 2-cold? All you need is one player to call 2-cold to balance out the calls from all 3 of the guys who checked (assuming the bettor always comes along with us when we raise, we'd get 3 additional bets in either case).

What are the checks going to call with for one bet that they wouldn't for two? I suppose maybe just a gutshot type hand? Any oesd is coming no matter how many bets it is, so is any Queen, as unlikely as that might be. If they have nothing, they're folding for 1 or 2 bets, and then we get an additional bet out of MP3.

One thought that crossed my mind when I checked that flop is that someone could be going for a check raise if they had a Q (QJ or QT are nice liming hands in a 6 way pot). If I get raised, I have to fold with only 2 outs. I thought that a possibility from one of the EP players. Sure I would like to get people out, but I also didn't mind a free card hoping to hit one of my 4s. Another possibility is that someone limped with a mid pair (55 66) and I'm way behind. They might play it the same as I.

One reason I raised the turn is that I really did not want to see a river 5. I don't know what they limped with, but Ace rag seems quite possible. On the other hand, extracting a few more bets is nice too.

I got confused twice on this hand, so I thought I would post it. Thanks for the input.

Peace,
Opie

I'm still not completely sold on a flop bet, but you gain a lot more by folding out 67 type overcard hands than you lose by having to fold your 2 outer if you do get raised.

I agree with your reasoning on the turn raise as well. I think a naked ace might very well just call two cold anyways, if he's loose, with the gutter and the overcard.

I'm gonna post without reading replies and then go back b/c I'm really conflicted here. On the one hand, the board is somewhat draw heavy on the turn with a 2 flush and a 3 straight, so there's merit in raising to force people to make a bad call if they want to draw. That said, it sucks to not get value out of this hand.

On balance, I think most flush draws are probably calling two bets here (incorrectly I think) so I think I like going ahead and raising.