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Full Version: What's His Range Here?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
AimHigher
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($57.55)
SB ($25)
BB ($25.70)
UTG ($11.75)
MP ($18.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10, 8
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, MP calls $0.75

Flop: ($2.35) 2, 9, 7 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.50, MP calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.35) 6 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $4, MP calls $4

River: ($13.35) K (2 players)
MP bets $11.75 (All-In), Hero calls $11.75

Total pot: $36.85 | Rake: $1.80

Villain is 63/0/0/23 hands.

I realize the preflop isolation is somewhat loose, but I like to isolate loose-passive limpers in late position with hands I can get one or two streets of value from if I pair. I promise to I will start limiting my isolations to at least two broadways if I get enough fold preflops. Just a side note on the table dynamics, both blinds were tight.

I'm relatively certain this is an ok call on the river, but one thing I am working on is analyzing my opponent's ranges when facing river shoves. Any chance you guys could offer some insight?

As a side note if it's relevant, my image was probably quite aggressive. Since I'd sat down I'd been an absolute card rack and had won a few pots between 50 and 100 BBs in size.
Dictius
Not sure why you raised preflop, unless he is the kind of player to limp/fold a lot.

Why bet the flop against someone so passive? In position, I think I would check the flop and try and get value if I hit my hand.

On the turn, I'd bet more. The guy looks like a calling station from his stats, if he is calling $4 I'd guess he is calling a pot sized bet too.
AimHigher
QUOTE (Dictius @ Saturday, November 29th, 2008, 7:51 AM) *
Not sure why you raised preflop, unless he is the kind of player to limp/fold a lot.

Why bet the flop against someone so passive? In position, I think I would check the flop and try and get value if I hit my hand.

On the turn, I'd bet more. The guy looks like a calling station from his stats, if he is calling $4 I'd guess he is calling a pot sized bet too.


Surely betting this flop is standard? I'm quite happy to get him to fold hands like KT when I'm a 3:2 underdog against that hand. Also betting the flop now enables us to get stacks in more easily the times that we hit. I think it's going to be pretty difficult to get his $17 in by the river if we don't start on the flop.

I'd usually bet the turn larger, but I opted for a smaller bet since I could still get his stack in on the river and I thought I might get him to call slightly wider if I made a slightly smaller bet. Is this thinking backwards? There are obviously some draws that will brick on the river that I won't be able to get value from.

Also, what do you think his range is for the river shove?
Sheiky
Whole hand is totally standard imo.

It's fine to fold T8o OTB there, but I against that player I think raising is better.

Flop and turn bets are good, and river call is obvious.

As for what his range is, it all comes down to the player. I think against really bad players this can often be some sort of missed draw or something like pocket 5s that's decided to bluff the river. It's never really a one pair hand or a set, but two-pair is definitely a big part of his range I would say. And ofc he could have a flush, but it's backdoor so it really doesn't matter that much if you have any type of hand to call with.
Dictius
is this guy folding KT to a flop bet though? maybe I am reading too much into stats after only a small number of hands, but the guy's AF is 0 so does that mean he never folds to cbets? I'm not sure

His range on the river is probably flushes a lot, he likely calls the flop with AcXc or anyhand he has that is some type of gutshot with two clubs also, 9cXc is obv calling the flop too. He might be shoving two pair like K9, he could have a set if he is known for slowplaying big hands. I think he has one pair approximately 0% of the time. It's hard to say how often he is bluffing here, but I'd say not often enough to call.This is based soley on his stats (since it is the only thing I know about him).

I probably call on the river in the heat of the moment, but I think he has a flush here more than 70% of the time based on how passive he is.
Sheiky
No way you can ever fold this river IMO
Dictius
You don't think he shows up with a flush here a lot?

I think we need more information about the player tbh
AimHigher
QUOTE (Dictius @ Saturday, November 29th, 2008, 9:45 AM) *
is this guy folding KT to a flop bet though? maybe I am reading too much into stats after only a small number of hands, but the guy's AF is 0 so does that mean he never folds to cbets? I'm not sure

His range on the river is probably flushes a lot, he likely calls the flop with AcXc or anyhand he has that is some type of gutshot with two clubs also, 9cXc is obv calling the flop too. He might be shoving two pair like K9, he could have a set if he is known for slowplaying big hands. I think he has one pair approximately 0% of the time. It's hard to say how often he is bluffing here, but I'd say not often enough to call.This is based soley on his stats (since it is the only thing I know about him).

I probably call on the river in the heat of the moment, but I think he has a flush here more than 70% of the time based on how passive he is.


Well, I had to get his stats from uploading the session's HH to card runners because I forgot to note them when I saved the HH to notepad. AF of 0 might mean undetermined on the CR replayer. How do you determine how floaty a player is based on AF though? Doesn't it group folding/calling into one?

QUOTE (Sheiky @ Saturday, November 29th, 2008, 9:35 AM) *
Whole hand is totally standard imo.

It's fine to fold T8o OTB there, but I against that player I think raising is better.

Flop and turn bets are good, and river call is obvious.

As for what his range is, it all comes down to the player. I think against really bad players this can often be some sort of missed draw or something like pocket 5s that's decided to bluff the river. It's never really a one pair hand or a set, but two-pair is definitely a big part of his range I would say. And ofc he could have a flush, but it's backdoor so it really doesn't matter that much if you have any type of hand to call with.


Are you calling with a 97 then?
Solar
I think he shows up with a flush when it so happens that the cards in his hand turn out to be clubs. Not often. Never ever ever going to fold so why don't we call and find out what his hand is/take his mobneys, instead of guessing. Sure if it was an interesting hand, his range would also be interesting. I just call and move on.
AimHigher
QUOTE (Solar @ Saturday, November 29th, 2008, 11:22 AM) *
I think he shows up with a flush when it so happens that the cards in his hand turn out to be clubs. Not often. Never ever ever going to fold so why don't we call and find out what his hand is/take his mobneys, instead of guessing. Sure if it was an interesting hand, his range would also be interesting. I just call and move on.

I thought the fact that AdJd was in his range was pretty interesting.
CobaltBlue
Here are the hands he's representing that beat you: Ac2c, 9c8c, Tc9c, Jc9c, Qc9c, Ac9c (6 hands). However, you split with T8s (2 hands) and T8o (11 hands). You beat the sets (probably 12 hands). You beat the K9 (9 hands) or a really wonky other two pair. Also, you beat the crazed bluffs.
Krownkickin_FTW
Very intersting hand, looks like u played it standard imo. Bottom line u have to consider what he thinks you have and first thing that jumps to mind is overpair or AK that just got there. So him shoving is repping better than one pair whether he's bluffin or not. So aside from the weird missed draw bluffs i think he shows up with 9cXc a lot, but i dont think clubs really bothers him because if does have 2 pair or set of 2s ( set of 7s,9s highly unlikely because of lack of raise preflop) hes check calling your allin anyways(even tho i wouldn't but very common leak). If I was in his situation and I did have 9cXc i would probably check raise allin the turn, but he may play more passive so without any knowledge of his style its hard to tell. So basically like someone else said before, his bluff range added to 2 pairs plus sets is greater than flush range, so definate river call.

very interested in what villians hand is so please post soon

Solar
QUOTE (AimHigher @ Sunday, November 30th, 2008, 10:12 AM) *
I thought the fact that AdJd was in his range was pretty interesting.


He had AdJd? seems normal. This is why working out his range is difficult. You've only seen 23 hands on the guy. Is he the type to show up with ATC here? maybe, maybe not. But you cant logically work out his range and get any kind of mathematics on the situation when he may or may not have anything.
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