PokerStars Game #21973483475: Tournament #119387045, $5.00+$0.50 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2008/11/12 9:40:17 ET
Table '119387045 72' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: alyvescah (6010 in chips)
Seat 2: WEST TX FISH (3295 in chips)
Seat 3: lbernd (6830 in chips)
Seat 4: Soulmann187 (2730 in chips)
Seat 6: angkiki (6555 in chips)
Seat 7: TiguiVw (3225 in chips)
Seat 8: 19pete83 (5935 in chips)
Seat 9: larry-pkher (4160 in chips)
TiguiVw: posts small blind 25
19pete83: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to angkiki [8c Jh]
larry-pkher: folds
angkiki said, "nh dude"
alyvescah: folds
WEST TX FISH: folds
lbernd: folds
Battie123 is connected
Soulmann187: folds
angkiki: calls 50
TiguiVw: raises 50 to 100
19pete83: folds
angkiki: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [5d 6d Qs]
TiguiVw: bets 200
angkiki: folds
Uncalled bet (200) returned to TiguiVw
TiguiVw collected 250 from pot
TiguiVw: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 250 | Rake 0
Board [5d 6d Qs]
Seat 1: alyvescah folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: WEST TX FISH folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: lbernd folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Soulmann187 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: angkiki (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: TiguiVw (small blind) collected (250)
Seat 8: 19pete83 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: larry-pkher folded before Flop (didn't bet)

What flops do you want to see? Do you really like a Jxx flop?
Just fold that...I like it more if it's suited. This seems like a waste of chips

In fact I just noticed you open limped On The Button...nonono just fold or raise preflop when you are first to act from Middle Position - Button.
Fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Raise >>>>>Limp

Once you limped I guess the call of his raise isn#'t bad given you have position but I don't play hands this way so I wouldn't know.

There ARE spots where you can effectively open limp buttons (despite what most people will say) - this is definitely not one of them. At 25/50 - deepstacked - always be raising or folding here.

I will take note of raise/fold when deep-stacked. But i thought J8o was decent enough to limp and see a flop.
But indeed there isn't much of an ideal flop to see.

Never call this. There is no reason. Please convert your hands for now on.

If it's not good enough to open raise it's not good enough to open call.

Pop it to 150, or fold it.


There are exceptions, and there are times to open limp, from any position...but most of those exceptions revolve around laying a trap, and you don't trap with J8....or they revolve around playing a passive table where you know you can open limp and get 5 or 6 callers with you...not good from the button, and, again, J8 not good for that.

Suited or not, fold this pre-flop.

Pretty easy fold preflop. Unless you are trying to create some sort of image to exploit later...

Should have open raised pre. You have the button and position postflop if called. Villain might have checked to you if you open raised and you may have taken this pot with a flop lead... but once you limped and he showed strength with the raise, he was almost definitely leading out, and there's no way you could continue from there without a great read.

No doubt fold preflop. No question about it.

i dont know, you have well over 100 big blinds, and J8 is a marginal hand. If you wanna call preflop, with no raises on the button i don't see the big deal...with blinds this low we don't need to wait for aces or kings to play. of course fold to 3x + BB raises.. but in this situation i think it is fine.

You just spew chips off this way. And like Highway said, do you really like a Jxx flop?"

I raise if the blinds are tightish, or else I fold.

I can say that I call here 0% of the time.

And you're calling because.....?

You're getting pot odds to hit your hand?

You want to outplay your opponents, post flop, who, because of your call, could literally have any two cards?

Because J72 will be a good flop for you? Don't you just love it when the big blind gets to play 72 for free?


You raise because you want to steal the blinds, and may even get a few better hands to fold.

You fold because it's a traditional trouble hand, and face cards only look pretty.

I can't think of any valid reason to call.

Are the blinds really worth stealing when they are this small though?

Can you elabourate on your thoughts on open limping buttons? I used to never do it; but then I saw a PAD where Daniel Negreanu defended the idea of limping on the button (apparently he had been told by Internet pros "that's so -EV dude!" and was laughing about it) and decided to try it. I find it works well in conjunction with the idea of small pot poker, especially with speculative hands like small pairs, suited connectors, suited Ax, etc. But I don't usually play this deep; I'm talking more in the lower end of the Green Zone (25-40 M).

No.

If you're going to open from the button with a deep stack, open raising >>>>>>> open limping. You show strength, and increase the likelihood that the blinds check to you postlfop if they call, allowing you to lead the flop. By limping, you convey minimal strength and make it easier for the blinds to take control of the hand postflop. This is only fine if you want to play tricky with a big hand like AA-QQ or AK (which I wouldn't suggest doing often), but not with a weaker hand like J8.

If you're going to open on the button with a hand like J8, always raise. Never limp.

Typically not...my point is, I can see reasons to fold and reasons to raise, even if they are marginal...I see no justification for limping here.

However, if you steal the blinds once every revolution you'll never get blinded out.

agreed