Yeah Sac suburbs (well moving back to there soon enough at least)

And yes, I want a top 3 pick. We suck, we are riddled with mediocre players. It's like we have a team full of MLE's.

Option A: Lakers go 70-12, homecourt throughout playoffs. Kings get 8th seed and beat the Lakers in 5 games ending their dream season in devastating fashion.

Option B: Kings go 15-67 and get the #1 pick.

Which do you choose?

B. Without question. Long term over immediate pleasure.

Wow. Well good luck. I think they're too good though, they're going to need ping pong ball help.

I KNOW! We keep singing medicore players. WTF. WHY. We do a great job of drafting value for the position we have, but they are never superstars.

exactly. I think people are nuts to not take him 1st and he was going like 8th on average. He outscored everyone by 100 points last year.




I beat the hell out of the commish. that's what.




Let's go in today's dollars. I might not have my DQ in 8 years.

Yeah, but that was also the first year he was ever a truly great fantasy player, So I see nothing wrong with taking LT at one. But really, I didn't see any of the guys at 2 that I thought would be better than brady. Maybe the trade off of not having one of the very few great running backs is considered too much by poker writers or what ever, but I thought, if healthy, he would have put up like 40+ td's, which is absurd.


Meh, I think it depends what the draft looks like. If you can get someone like Lebron, I agree, but this year is pretty slim, I think I would take historic rival spite. That's worth a year in the rebuilding process if you weren't going to get a stud anyway.

um yea, maybe because he adjusted your lineup......

Yeah, since I set your line up for you...

When you do shit like that in a dynasty, everyone else thinks you are tanking so you get a better pick for next year. And I'm the one who has to answer to all of them about it.

Word. Don't be that guy brvheart. You're lineup would've been empty aka 0 points. Not cool.

I seriously say if this shit happens again he should be outed. and fwiw i think i have someone that'd be interested. back to the warner talks now....

LOL. I've never played in a league in my entire life that didn't keep the lineup from the previous week. This site you guys play on is totally sucky. That being said, if I had known that I would have gotten zero points I would have set my lineup. Also, I don't need to do anything to get the first pick. It's already a lock.

As a Blazer fan, I'd take Option A all day long.. Of course, I know we'd just waste the #1 pick.. but still..

Oh and for the record, Warner has more rings than Dan Marino.. and something stupid like the 2nd highest QB Rating of all time behind Steve Young.

See below.


You know it doesn't really matter. Making fun of him about it will be worth more than the $100...especially $100 in 20 years will be like 56 cents now.

You just like him because he's a god fearin' man. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're not a big football fan.



This is funny to me.



I agree, although this year might be the deal maker. Two more years like this and he's first ballot.



I do too, but he's not a mortal lock. Yet.



I hate you a little bit for saying this.

Lord knows I hate to defend hollywood, but A) I'm pretty sure he's a huge football fan, being a crazed texan and all and At his peak, Warner was just about the best ever, I completely agree. I would take a peak Warner over a peak almost everyone else except for maybe like Brady, Elway, Marino, Montana and Steve Young ( who's peak I think I'd take over anyones, truth be told, though I know I'll get heat for saying it). And really, I think you can make a case that Warner's peak was better than all of those guys ( I think you'd be wrong, but I don't think you'd be crazy for thinking it). I'd take a peak Warner over Manning and Favre.

Good. That's what I'd choose if it was reversed. Not Lakers Blazers, but if I was the team always getting beat up by the-you know what I mean.

I would take a 1999-2001 Warner over Elway for sure, and Marino, anytime after 1988. I would need to see tape of Montana and Young to really make a good decision, because while I remember them being awesome... who really knows? I mean, defenses are WAY better and more sophisticated today. Warner may be a TON better... I just wouldn't be able to make an unbiased decision without reviewing a lot of game film.

I'd be less inclined to take Warner over Elway than Marino or Montana. I pretty much think Elway is the best qb of all time.

I could wintess.

I was never an Elway fan.

Hes got a chance of finishing with the best QB Rating ever(I think). Hes won a league MVP and a Super Bowl, I say auto yes.

EDIT: Well dont know if he can pass him but his rating going into this year for a career is 93.2 and Steve Young is #1 with 96.9

2 MVP's

I was... that broncos team was my second favorite after the bears at the time, and I was polarized into liking Elway 'cause pops hated him. Plus, his first super bowl was over the packers and brett favre, so pretty much send it to elway.

Same here

This is insane. And not just the Marino part. I shudder to think what Marino would have done post-1988 with Marshall Faulk, Tory Holt, Isaac Bruce, Az-Hakim, and a strong o-line. Warner was great during that stretch....but I think a lot of QBs would have looked like gods throwing to that collection of talent.

Marino and Elway got it done both when they had the goods surrounding them AND when they did not. They are the best 2 QBs of all time, imo, and I dont think it is all that close (though Joe Montana's postseason success is impressive. I would understand someone putting him over either Elway or Marino. Further, both Brady and Peyton have a good chance to be the king some day.)

Warner was/is a great QB but he never showed me much when he did not have overwhelming weapons around him. (Let's not forget this current MVP year comes with him being blessed with the best WR tandem in the league BY FAR.) And he still has too many games like tonight against Philly where he turns the ball over too much.

Dallas and Green Bay could both argue that point.

Dallas could only make a legit argument post-trade for Roy E. Williams. So, that is only like the last few weeks.

Green Bay? Not even close, imo. Greg Jennings is a great player and Driver is still solid. But neither of them is as good as either Boldin or Fitzgerald....not to mention Urban and Breaston are both very solid.

I'll still take Arizona's WR corps....but yeah Dallas is close or tied after trading for Roy. I think my overall point still stands.

The title of this thread should now be Kurt Warner, Hall of Fame!!!! "Cause that's where he's going. Leading Arizona to the NFC Championship game is an historically unprecedented event. The Cardinals, in their entire history as a franchise, have never won two play off games the same season.

I'm pretty sure, Leinhart would have taken the same team this far too.

I think your bias for the Dolphins is coming through. What did Marino do with amazing talent 1984-1988? Not win the Superbowl is what.


How can you explain 2003-2008 Rams? They basically had all the same players, but add Steven Jackson, with no Warner, and they sucked.




This is obviously true now. He is an absolute lock, and if they somehow, someway win the superbowl, he will be legend status.

Any more doubts?



Welcome to the HOF Mr. Warner.

Hall to the Mother Fucking Fame, Home boy

HALL TO THE MOTHER FUCKING FAME

"I know everyone will be tired of hearing it, but I'll never get tired of sayin' it. There is one reason I'm standing up here today, that's because of my Lord up above, I gotta say thanks to Jesus. You knew I was gonna do it, but I gotta do it."



amen.

The Rams, now the Cardinals. I think the Clippers have Mike Dunleavy's replacement as soon as Kurt retires.

There are no more doubts.


Passing yards in a Superbowl

1. Warner 414

2. Warner 377 (against easily the best defense in the league)

3. Warner 365

4. Joe Montana 357

you know me and my friend use to have this conversation even before this year and I always thought no way. After this year not to mention today's performance and looking at stats from other QB's in the hall I see no way he is not in the hall of fame.

Here is a thought what about big ben? He just seems to know how to lead the team. Doesn't do it with the stats but always puts his team in a good situation to win the game.

Not even close, right now. Same stats, he will need to win 2 more superbowls. Or one more and MVP. He doesn't make a ton of mistakes though, which is exactly what a team with a strong running game and excellent defense needs. He is the Ravens wet dream.

okay just for arguements sake I am going to mention this guy. Troy aikman not the greatest career stats, played with great players all around him, and winner of three superbowls. Here is Aikman's career stats
TD - 165 INT - 141
Yards 32,942
QB Rating 81.6
165 Games Played

No league MVP's just the one superbowl MVP.

Big Ben much less time in the league but already has two superbowl titles one pro bowl trip. And here is his stats

TD - 101 INT - 69
Passing yards 14,974
QB Rating 89.4
72 Games Played

One thing I know is unlike baseball stats aren't the only important thing in football. How a player can lead his team and take charge of his team. Was Aikman the leader of the team or was Emmitt? Big Ben has seemed to be a bit of leader.

I am doing this purely for throwing things out there. Do I honestly believe Big Ben is a hall of famer right now Hell no. But if he has decent years for the next 7 years and even if he doesn't win another super bowl but his team always is in contention would that put him into the hall? I think he has a decent chance.

Unless Big Ben completely falls off the map his chances are pretty good. He can have average stats on average teams the next 5+ years and I think he is going in. By average, I mean over 15 TD's with under 10 INT's and 3,000 yards.

As for Kurt Warner, I thought he was in before the Super Bowl performance. With the performance last night, his stock just went way up. HOF voters can be ignorant at times so it will definitely be interesting to see. I thought no doubt Chris Carter was first-ballot but we all see what has happened there.

The cardinal's performance last night reminded me of Rocky Balboa in Rocky 1. They fought extremely hard, and they might have lost ,but they proved without a doubt that they deserved to be there. Kurt Warner deserves to be in the hall of fame, without a doubt, and if he'd won the two superbowls he lost in ( a big if, I'll grant you) He'd maybe considered the best ever, or in the consideration. Brv's stats say it all. Kurt warner is clutch, and comes up huge in the playoffs.


Also, I think Big Ben is overrated, but he's on the fast track to the HOF right now.

100% agree with everything in this post. He is in the perfect situation to be just an average QB that doesn't turn it over very much. He will always get WAY more credit than he deserves.

I'll say one thing that he does, that is not average, is evade tackles and make plays out of broken plays. It's not something that you can teach, and BB is so big and strong that he's very hard to tackle, and often makes something out of nothing. So I give him credit for that. But I dont' think he's the best non-brady QB in the league. There are at least a dozen QB's in the league that could have led this Pittsburgh team to the superbowl. Gravy training a defense doesn't make you great. Warner was the corner stone of two different superbowl teams that depended on it's offense to win ball games. Not a close comparison, IMO.

Warner is a HOFer in my opinion. Big Bens stats speak for themselves.

He is has the best passer rating of any QB in his 1st 5 years in the league.

* Most regular season wins by an NFL rookie quarterback (2004) - 13 games (Roethlisberger did not play in the Steelers' season opener against Oakland or their season finale at Buffalo during their 15-1 season)
* Highest quarterback rating by an NFL rookie quarterback (2004) - 98.1
* Highest completion percentage by an NFL rookie quarterback (2004) - 66.4%
* Longest regular season win streak to start a career for an NFL quarterback (2004-05) - 15 games
* First quarterback to start two Conference Championship games in first two seasons in the NFL (2004 & 2005)
* Second youngest quarterback to play in the Super Bowl (2005), behind Dan Marino
* Youngest quarterback ever to win the Super Bowl (2005)
* Achieved the 32nd perfect passer rating in NFL history in a game against the Titans on September 11, 2005

NFL Records
First QB in NFL history to go 13-0 in the regular season (2004; then done by Peyton Manning in 2005 and Tom Brady in 2007)
Most Regular Season Wins in a Season, Rookie QB - 13 (2004)
Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB - 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)
Highest Passer Rating, Rookie Season - 98.1 (2004)
Highest Completion %, Rookie Season - 66.4% (2004)
(Tie) Most Touchdown Passes, Monday Night Football game - 5 (11/5/2007 vs. Baltimore Ravens)
First QB to start two Conference Championship games in first two seasons in the NFL (2004 & 2005)
Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; 2nd youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl behind Dan Marino)
Roethlisberger became the second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register 3 perfect passing games during the regular season and only quarterback to ever register 2 perfect passing games in one regular season.


Pittsburgh Steeler Franchise Records
46-18 (.719) record as starting QB (includes a 5-2 playoff record)
.719 winning percentage is the highest among all Steeler QB's with at least 20 starts
Most Pass Attempts, Rookie Season - 295 (2004)
Most Pass Completions, Rookie Season - 196 (2004)
Most Pass Completions, Game - 38 (Completed 38 of 54 passes for 433 yards on November 5, 2006 against the Denver Broncos)
(Tie) Most Consecutive Passes Completed, Game - 15 (Completed 15 straight on November 26, 2007 against the Miami Dolphins on Monday Night Football. Bubby Brister also completed 15 straight on October 1, 1989 against the Detroit Lions)
Highest Completion %, Career (Min. 100 attempts) - 63.5%
Highest Completion %, Season - 66.4% (2004)
Highest Completion %, Rookie Season - 66.4% (2004)
Highest Completion %, Game (Min. 20 attempts) - 85.7% (Completed 18 out of 21 attempts on November 26, 2007 against the Miami Dolphins on Monday Night Football)
Highest Completion %, Postseason Career (Min. 50 attempts) - 62.4%
Most Passing Yards, Rookie Season - 2621 (2004)
(Tie) Most 400+ Yard Passing Games, Career - 1 (tied w/Bobby Layne and Tommy Maddox)
(Tie) Most 3000 Yard Passing Seasons - 2 (tied w/Terry Bradshaw and Kordell Stewart)
(Tie) Most Touchdown Passes, Game - 5 (Threw 5 TD passes in the first half against the Baltimore Ravens on a Monday Night game November 5, 2007. Tied w/Terry Bradshaw and Mark Malone)
Most Touchdown Passes, Season - 32 (2007)
Most Touchdown Passes, Rookie Season - 17 (2004)
Most Consecutive Games With a TD Pass - 15 (from December 3, 2006 through November 18, 2007)
Highest TD%, Career (Min. 500 attempts) - 5.85%
Highest TD%, Season - 7.92% (2007)
Highest Yards Per Attempt, Career (Min. 100 attempts) - 8.17
Highest Yards Per Attempt, Season - 8.90 (2005)
Highest Yards Per Attempt, Rookie Season - 8.88 (2004)
Highest Passer Rating, Career (Min. 100 attempts) - 93.5
Highest Passer Rating, Season - 104.1 (2007
Highest Passer Rating, Rookie Season - 98.1 (2004)
Highest Passer Rating, Postseason Career - 85.1 (7 starts)
Most Games With a Perfect Passer Rating, Career - 3



Pretty good for a guy in a RUN 1st, RUN 2nd, PASS 3rd offense his 1st few years. Pretty impressive Steeler records considering a QB named Bradshaw with 4 rings played before him.
Dont be jealous...Im sure at LEAST 27 teams in the NFL would love to have him behind center.

Also, these dont include this years stats....

You guys wanna put Warner in the hof for having 3 good seasons? Really?

He did take 2 losing franchises to the SB and won with 1 of them. Pretty impressive. His stats were lacking for a 4 year period but his good years will overshadow the bad ones.

yes.

He fell off the map for 5 years, and was average in '07. Granted those 3 yrs were really good years, but I don't see how he makes it.

Yes, especially since in spite of his bad years...

Do his 'bad' years include leading the Giants to a 6-2 record in 2004 before being benched in favor of Eli Manning?