This is a good point right here.

yes after he left the Rams, Torry Holt continued to put up all-pro numbers. Isaac Bruce had a decent year in San Fran this year even though he is 47 years old. Marshall Faulk retired. The Rams D fell apart and then the team fell apart. You are not arguing that putting Warner on the Rams this year puts them in the playoffs are you? Cuz that would be crazy talk.

The second point is valid. No way Leinart takes the Cards to the Super Bowl. But it depends on what you mean. I could think of several QBs who could have also taken the Cards to the super bowl this year.

Also, lets breathe and remember that I said Warner DOES belong in the hall. I dont make that statement lightly. Just saying, you have to bear in mind that ALL Warner's success came with a great WR corps in tow. All five good years. There are great QBs who did a lot with not so much (Marino after 1988, Elway in the Vance Johnson era, Brett Favre after Sterling Sharpe left, Tom Brady when their WR corps was Troy Brown and David Patten) and I give them extra credit. Not surprisingly, that list consists mostly of guys who are in the all time debate.

Warner is a hall of famer but he is a 2nd tier hall guy without a few more great years. thats all.

See the thing about every good qb they all win because of the system they are in. And the great one find a way to always pull it off that is the secret. I mean lets look at peyton he has had one of the greatest offensive systems for the last 6 years. But yet only one title, reason being he didn't have the best defense and that was the downfall. The pats with brady were better defensive team than they were offensive team when they first won the title. At the same token though brady didn't make the mistakes to take them out of the game. And now with the weapons he has they are just that much more powerful. As far as favre he has had his good WR. He has had robert brooks, antonio freeman, bubba franks was a stud at TE.

I mean hell if you want to talk about a great QB in a perfect system it's Warren Moon. His run and gun was just to put up massive scoring left and right. Yet he doesn't have a title. Granted the one difference is that he hasn't had bad strings like warner has put together in his bad year. But it always comes down to titles and Warner has one.

I think there's a lot of truth to this.



That much is true. If Fitzgerald doesn't run into his own guy on the sideline trying to catch Harrison, there's no TD. I'm surprised more hasn't been made of that aspect of the play.



Joe Montana. (/point)



Walter Payton. (/point)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3927171

is this a 1 year deal? 2 years? more?

I think it is very fair value for Warner.....BUT I would not sign him to anything more than a one year contract with a 2nd year CLUB option. Warner is in that stage of his career where one bad hit and it is over.

They also need to find out about Leinart's long term potential sooner than later.

I wish more people thought this way when discussing Chris Osgood as a potential HOFer. The guy is climbing up the record books and has 3 cups, was a key figure in 2 of them but he gets dissed nationally because he played most of his career with the Red Wings and that is just too easy.

This is no different than the discussion about Warner with the Rams and having Bruce, Hakim, and Holt.

Goddammit. Who spilled hockey on my football forum?

Goddammit. Who spilled hockey on my football forum?

Set the single game record for completion percentage today... besting Vinnie Testaverde? (I think), who held it by going 22 of 24? (I think). Warner was 24-26 today.


1st ballot HOF ----> lock

well.. I just read something that has put me pretty much on perma tilt... from KW's wiki..























FUCK!

If he does, that's something special. Imagine going from grocery stock boy to a Hall of Fame QB. Talk about a drastic change in a career.

well, the bear's natural enemy is the scorpion.

Scorpion sting?!? lol...

With rumors swirling about Kurt Warner's retirement, I'd just like to remind people, all the warner haters, why he's going to the hall....
In the Arizona-GB game, here was his stat line

29-33 379 5 td 0 ints 154.1


What. The. Fuck. The guy is such a monster in the playoffs, when he stats should go down because he's playing tougher opponents. I'll be really sad if he retires, he's been a joy to watch.

I've watched a lot of football this week, and no one can convince me that Kurt Warner wasn't the best QB on the field among every team on the field this weekend. If his offensive line gives him 2-3 seconds it's almost a guaranteed completion. What was he today? 20-24 for 300 yards and like 5 TD's? Unstoppable.

A. Rogers is good also, but he receivers dropped a TON of balls and he wasn't even close to as accurate as Warner on the plays that weren't obviously his receivers fault.

On the other hand, Warner made Early Doucet look like a pro bowler.

Sorry, I didn't read your post before posting.

a 154 qb rating? WTF? Sanchez had an over 150 rating too, but with like 140 passing yards.

Yeah, he's decent.

4 incompletions. Wow.

I always find it pretty funny that a "Perfect Quarterback Rating" is 158.3



How stupid is that. Fraking random. They couldn't even find a way to normalize it to 100?

And he has to be a lock for HOF...

...but I also can't understand how Jack Morris isn't a HOF lock.

The baseball hall of fame is WAY stupider than the football hall of fame. I mean 28 voters did NOT vote for Rickey Henderson, the greatest leadoff hitter of all time. And these guys got to keep their vote.

Warner will be in especially since playoff success is always weighted heavily. Plus, he has enough great seasons now.

Brv, you are underrating Philip Rivers.

I don't disagree, but in my defense, my 3 through 5 picks are basically interchangable. Brady was bad today, but I would still take him over Rodgers 10 out of 10 times. But over Rivers, I might only take him 6 out of 10 times.

Did you see him look off the defenders knowing Breaston was his guy over the middle on that last drive. God he's good.

Like..I don't necessarily disagree with you..but what does Rodgers' WRs dropping balls have to do with his ability as a quarterback?



If Warner's not a lock for the Hall, they should shut that joint down. RISE probably disagrees though..Warner's only won one Super Bowl.

Nothing. I was talking mainly to the fact that he threw a bunch of bad passes early in the game and singlehandedly lost the game for the Packers by missing a WIDE open Jennings in the middle of the field for a touchdown in OT.

Boy.. "singlehandedly lost the game" is a lot of blame to place on a guy who's defense forced two punts the whole game.

Also, as mentioned in the other thread.. it's just as likely that Jennings ran the wrong route as it is that Rodgers just threw a bad pass.

It doesn't matter the route, that pass was awful either way.

Are you on drugs? THe packers would have gotten beat by 30 points if not for rodgers.

oh, Brvholtz...you so crazy.

Oh.. okay.

There were two routes he could have been running, a post (which he did) or a drag route, either way that ball was thrown flat and hard. Even if it did reach his target it would have been very difficult to catch from that angle. It should have been left out in front of him so he could have run under it and not stopped. He was ahead of the defender, no matter which direction the route was supposed to take him.

I really hope you don't think you wanna have his baby.

No, because we would never agree on what religion to raise the children.

COME ON GUYS! Of course I'm just talking about in that split second they could have won and he lost it for them. He also took the last sack and fumbled the game winning touchdown the other way. I'm only talking about OT. I 100% agree that Rodges played a good game overall and that he led his team from certain defeat to an almost victory. He was clearly just the 2nd best QB in the game and his missed pass/fumble in the OT period definitely lost the game for them.

Well, I guess Warner wasn't that important after all. The Cardinals look great without him.

Just for fun, playoff comparisons of the best QB's (MVP's, HoFamers, multiple SB appearances) of the last 20 years:

Montana:
23 games, 62.7 comp%, 45-21 TD/INT, 95.6 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 14
Games <80 RATE: 6
Worst RATE games: 34.2, 42.0, 39.2
SB RATE(s): 100.0, 127.2, 115.2, 147.6

Marino:
18 games, 56.0 comp%, 32-24 TD/INT, 77.1 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 6
Games <80 RATE: 10
Worst RATE games: 54.9, 56.5, 29.3, 34.6
SB RATE(s): 66.9

Elway:
22 games, 54.5 comp%, 27-21 TD/INT, 79.7 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 9
Games <80 RATE: 9
Worst RATE games: 53.8, 36.8, 19.4, 49.9, 51.9
SB RATE(s): 83.6, 36.8, 19.4, 51.9, 99.2

Kelly:
17 games, 59.1 comp%, 21-28 TD/INT, 72.3 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 3
Games <80 RATE: 10
Worst RATE games: 35.1, 31.6, 44.8, 58.9, 33.6
SB RATE(s): 81.5, 44.8, 58.9, 67.1

Aikman:
16 games, 63.7 comp%, 23-17 TD/INT, 88.3 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 9
Games <80 RATE: 7
Worst RATE games: 37.4, 37.0
SB RATE(s): 140.7, 77.2, 108.8

Favre:
24 games, 60.8 comp%, 44-30 TD/INT, 86.3 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 12
Games <80 RATE: 8
Worst RATE games: 58.2, 57.1, 53.5, 54.4, 55.4
SB RATE(s): 107.9, 91.0

Warner:
13 games, 66.5 comp%, 31-14 TD/INT, 102.8 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 9
Games <80 RATE: 3
Worst RATE games: 56.2
SB RATE(s): 99.7, 78.3, 112.3

Manning:
19 games, 63.1 comp%, 29-19 TD/INT, 88.4 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 8
Games <80 RATE: 7
Worst RATE games: 31.2, 35.5, 39.6,
SB RATE(s): 81.8, 88.5

Brady:
19 games, 62.2 comp%, 30-16 TD/INT, 85.7 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 7
Games <80 RATE: 8
Worst RATE games: 57.6, 49.1
SB RATE(s): 86.2, 100.5, 110.2, 82.5,

Roethlisberger:
13 games, 61.2 comp%, 19-16 TD/INT, 84.5 RATE
Games 90+ RATE: 6
Games <80 RATE: 6
Worst RATE games: 57.8, 22.6, 35.5
SB RATE(s): 22.6, 93.2, 77.4

Also I think this season should put to rest "Warner was just a product of the system, any QB could have done well". Because they gave many QB's a chance to do well this year, and none of them did.