button open limps, sb completes, i check in bb with j8o no clubs.

flop comes 89q all clubs.

sb checks.

typical loose passives. the game just broke into four handed from ten so they might not be familiar with short handed play.

If they are passives then making a bet to take it down now is ok. If they call reevaluate on turn. Not quite sure what to do if you are raised.

i didn't like a bet for two reasons.

1) they are passive. they will call with lots of things. if they call i have no idea where i am and are going to have to fold a bet unless i hit a straight, two pair, or a trips that aren't a club. this essentially turns my pair into a bluff.
2) im trying to think of a range for the button to open limp shorthanded like that. this flop hit what i think he would limp with pretty well here. the only hands that he calls with that im very far ahead of are small pairs. but if he calls with anything at all im in trouble, since i can't just call down here and loose passives in lhe seem to be blessed with bet-when-checked-to disease. i know that sounds contradictory, but when you check and they have anything they often feel like oh hey i have the best hand i better bet. they can get you to lay down the best hand a lot accidentally in places like this.

of course i did post the hand because im unsure, so all picking apart of this is welcome and happily encouraged.

yeah, but even passives tend to fold when the board is 3 to a flush, connected and they don't have a club. It's not like situations when the board is 2 5 9 rainbow, and they are calling with any 2 overcards, no matter what. On the board you describe, most passives will fold unless they have a club. They are unlikely to raise you without having you ( and probably your draw) beat. If they have a club draw, you make them pay, if they have you beat, they are unlikely to fold. I would bet out on the flop, there's a decent chance you can take it right there, and if not, you're probably charging the 7 (or what ever) of clubs to draw.

Im out on that

I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Explain.

OK... I'm convinced that a certain site that I play on the most gives up more flushes than normal. If I wasn't at least 4-flushed on that flop..I would fold if he presented a flush with his bet. In live poker... not so much...

I could be wrong but I swear some online sites give up flushes way more than I ever see in live poker so if 3 to a suit is flopped and I'm not in that suit.... and I have no boat chances... I'm usually out.


Also...on the example the OP gave... you have bottom pair.

You're behind a flush and 2 over pairs. You'd have to have a really good read on the guy to stay. REALLY good read.

Is this a level?

This has to be BigD.

i think hes for real.

Nope, not me. You've obviously never been to off-topic much to view holly's special brand of humor.

No I have. I was kidding.

Oh, well **** your mother then.



Also Iamstewie and jackiechilds are two of his alt Id's, I'm 99 percent sure. A mod can confirm/deny this.

yes.

I'm convinced Hollywood is going to infiltrate every sector of this forum and force an eventual disbandment. It will be like when the smelly, obnoxious kid sits at your lunch table in high school. Everyone at the table can make their disdain for him as apparent as possible, but he will persevere until everyone chooses a new table. It will be like the FCP apocalypse.

so what you're saying is Zach is the only thing standing between us and the abyss.

Precisely.

Make a bet strong enough to run off the 4 flushers but not so big that it will break your stack if they call or raise.

welcome to the limit hold 'em short handed forum..... NL --------------------->

Not only what BigD said, but LOL if you think people will fold 4-flushes on the flop in NL anyways. You know you don't always want folds. People are so obsessed with winning pots. If people have outs, you want to bet enough that it's unprofitable for them to call, but lots of the time, you'd rather they call with the incorrect odds. Depending on how many outs they have, the previous pot sizes, etc. But ya, NL ------------>

yeah, well, I think you can pretty much assume if someone's too stupid to correctly read what forum he's in, his no limit advice probably isn't much good anyway.

We have Bottom Pair and a Gut Shot on a board in which we could already be drawing dead.
I'm not too thrilled with my hand.

Betting is done as a bluff (getting better hands to fold) or for value (getting lesser hands to mistakenly call).
Can we do either one here?

I expect both loose-passive villains to call with any pair, any straight draw, and any club.
At this table, we could easily get called by everyone.
So we aren't bluffing anyone out.

Betting for value just seems too difficult.
Because we could certainly be behind already.
And even if we are ahead, there are tons of cards that put us behind on the turn or river.
So I don't see leading out as profitable.

Conclusion:
This pot is very small!
We really don't care about winning it.
If we were in position, we could put out a bet.
But being out of position with a marginal hand on a dangerous board, I check-fold this without regret.






Yes
You are right.
But that's ok.
Let them steal the itty bitty pots.
We'll get them back and more on the big ones.

--CM

He's in the Short Handed Texas Hold'em forum, doesn't define really whether its NL or Fixed although OP's hand looks like a Fixed game this part of the forum seems to be short-handed no-limit and fixed limit. I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time.

Forum description: "Discuss short handed limit hold'em here."

Posting guidelines: "The section of the forum is specifically for strategy questions relating to, or specific hands from short handed fixed limit hold'em of any stakes."

It is just called "Short Handed Texas Hold'em," though, so I can see where that might be confusing, if you don't read the subtitle.

and i was so sure you would say to raise!!

ty for the analysis, its nice to see you around again.

Ah, see I have been wrong before as I am wrong here. Thanks for clearing this up without being a jerk. Nice people still exist?

HAHahahhhahahah I hope your poker reads are better than your Poster Reads.

Yeah, you are a little late there captain as I have already admitted to my mistake and yes unlike you some of us can actually be wrong from time to time.

What he's trying to imply there is that I'm not a nice person. For some reason, just because I'm generally a dick to people, I have no moral compass and I have a history of setting up complicated ruses to trick or compel women to consent to iladvisable sex with me, Mac likes to think I'm a bad person. He sees the worst in people.

Ah, I see.