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SmileNTilt
I am expecting to move up limits in a couple of weeks, but I have been questioning my post flop play and would appreicate some advice ...

Been at the table for 8 hands - not seen a flop yet. I have only seen SB in 1 hand where he raised pf, cbet the flop and took the pot. MP1 has been in 4 pots so far and seems to be a station.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

UTG+1 ($12.02)
MP1 ($1.06)
MP2 ($8.77)
MP3 ($1.84)
CO ($1.88)
Button ($9.88)
SB ($9.48)
BB ($3.85)
Hero (UTG) ($5.93)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6 icon_suit_diamond.gif, 8 icon_suit_diamond.gif
Hero raises to $0.15, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.15, 4 folds, SB calls $0.13, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.50) 7 icon_suit_spade.gif, Q icon_suit_heart.gif, 9 icon_suit_spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.35, MP1 calls $0.35, SB raises to $0.95, Hero calls $0.60, MP1 calls $0.56 (All-In)

Turn: ($3.31) A icon_suit_diamond.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
SB bets $1.70, Hero ??

I am getting good odds on SB's flop mini-raise, so a call seems an easy decision. On the turn I dont have express odds and don't really have enough information to decide whether there would be implied odds.
Snake Plissken
ok I'll take the time to help you out here.

1) Don't you ever raise with 68 suited utg at a full ring table. You might see DN do it at HSP or something but: A, they are sitting over 800 BB's deep! B, it's often some kind of a TV-move or for metagame purposes! C, A player like DN is somewhat more comfortable playing a hand OOP. Conclusion: don't you ever do that cause that is just not profitable.

2) U tried to save the day with a flop bet. Nothing wrong with that. It's a misstake in this game cause u know ur not ever gonna take the pot down. Ur just gonna build a pot with that bet. The guy does in fact not min raise u. Anyway ur getting something like 3,5 to 1 odds and ur about 5 to 1 to hit ur straight on the turn (note: that's 8 outs counting. 2 of em might not be real outs since they complete a flush. U could be in worse shape but let's not get into that). Let the hand go.

3) Just don't call it. If you paid attention to section 2, this is an obvious lay down.

If you wanna be a winner at micro limit: Play ABC poker. Play only big hands and play them aggressive.

Note: small pairs, A10, KJ, KQ and hands like that are not big hands. It's crap.
SmileNTilt
QUOTE (Snake Plissken @ Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 12:09 PM) *
ok I'll take the time to help you out here.

1) Don't you ever raise with 68 suited utg at a full ring table. You might see DN do it at HSP or something but: A, they are sitting over 800 BB's deep! B, it's often some kind of a TV-move or for metagame purposes! C, A player like DN is somewhat more comfortable playing a hand OOP. Conclusion: don't you ever do that cause that is just not profitable.

2) U tried to save the day with a flop bet. Nothing wrong with that. It's a misstake in this game cause u know ur not ever gonna take the pot down. Ur just gonna build a pot with that bet. The guy does in fact not min raise u. Anyway ur getting something like 3,5 to 1 odds and ur about 5 to 1 to hit ur straight on the turn (note: that's 8 outs counting. 2 of em might not be real outs since they complete a flush. U could be in worse shape but let's not get into that). Let the hand go.

3) Just don't call it. If you paid attention to section 2, this is an obvious lay down.

If you wanna be a winner at micro limit: Play ABC poker. Play only big hands and play them aggressive.

Note: small pairs, A10, KJ, KQ and hands like that are not big hands. It's crap.


Thanks for the response, Snake. I do seem to have a problem letting suited connectors go when I am out of position. I'll work on tightening up some more pf.

I did lay the hand down on the turn, so not all bad news.
SGFULTON83
68 suited OOP is crap and even in position at a micro table is crap. But, if you are going to play it you could not have asked for a better flop for your hand than you got. Open-ended straight draw, besides from flopping flush or trips, is best we could hope for with this hand. That being said you should either pump it or dump it on that flop. If your not going to get it all in with open-ended with 68 then don't play it in the first place.
SCS
Raising in the CO or BTN is fine, but opening 86s UTG in a full ring microstakes game really isn't a good idea imo.
trystero
I fold on the turn.

I disagree with 3-betting OTF. We're behind, definitely, and since we have position it makes sense to re-evaluate on later streets.
BaseJester
QUOTE (SGFULTON83 @ Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 8:54 AM) *
68 suited OOP is crap and even in position at a micro table is crap. But, if you are going to play it you could not have asked for a better flop for your hand than you got. Open-ended straight draw, besides from flopping flush or trips, is best we could hope for with this hand. That being said you should either pump it or dump it on that flop. If your not going to get it all in with open-ended with 68 then don't play it in the first place.

The pot is protected by MP1. He's going to call and we're going to have show down a winner. The hero shouldn't raise the flop.

On the turn, I call with position, those odds, and that board. We can represent the flush if that hits and we'll tend to get action on six of our outs if it misses.

A fold is fine, but I think we can find some value here.
AimHigher
If you want to play a wider range of hands you could consider switching to 6 max. I mean, you still shouldn't be opening 86s UTG in 6 max, but at least there you'll be in a position where you can open it a considerably higher percentage of the time.

Like everybody else said, fold preflop. Small suited gappers like 86 are hands that mostly flop good draws. It's going to be a lot harder for you to get paid when you hit your draws out of position than it is in position.

After you C-bet and get raised, I'd just be inclined to let this go. You have 8 outs, but there are two spades on the board and the ten completes a higher straight.
SmileNTilt
QUOTE (trystero @ Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 7:29 PM) *
I fold on the turn.

I disagree with 3-betting OTF. We're behind, definitely, and since we have position it makes sense to re-evaluate on later streets.


Yeah, I have found, at these stakes at least, that if you 3-bet after you have been check raised then your opponent is going to shove. If I had more than 8 outs (6 good outs) - eg. flush draw as well - I would happily 3-bet / shove.

QUOTE (AimHigher @ Saturday, October 4th, 2008, 12:27 AM) *
If you want to play a wider range of hands you could consider switching to 6 max. I mean, you still shouldn't be opening 86s UTG in 6 max, but at least there you'll be in a position where you can open it a considerably higher percentage of the time.

Like everybody else said, fold preflop. Small suited gappers like 86 are hands that mostly flop good draws. It's going to be a lot harder for you to get paid when you hit your draws out of position than it is in position.

After you C-bet and get raised, I'd just be inclined to let this go. You have 8 outs, but there are two spades on the board and the ten completes a higher straight.


I have considered moving to 6 max, but as I am trying to analyse and improve my game I decided to stay at fr for the time being - this way, the game stays the same and I can see where I need to improve easier. When I am feeling a bit more confident in my game tho, I will try the move.

Thanks for the responses. I'll stop playing connectors and gappers out of position.
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