Really, what gives? Each week we just get one series of videos from a single pro, and a bunch of :30 second Q&A's. Why isn't there more content? I left CardRunners because I thought this would be better. The amount (and quality) of videos they put up makes PokerVT look silly.

The whole point is Daniel teaching poker. Yet the videos of him actually playing are few and far between. I have been extremely disapointed with my membership.

I concur this is getting ridiculous. Every Friday new videos are added, and only on Friday. Yet this week i get home Friday night and there are no new videos. I am starting a free trail at pokersavvyplus and already the content is far superior to pokervt. If you guys don't seriously step your game I'm gone and i highly doubt if i will be the only one leaving for greener pastures.

Agreed. I've updated my original post praising the site.

It needs to change - and quickly.

relax guys only another couple months of golf weather

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=128792

Owned

This is exactly the problem. Look at the output on Deuces Cracked. Think about why that is:



That man doesn't have a girlfriend, or friends or a tournament schedule. Would you hang out with that guy? Not if you like pussy. All that man is capable of is uncunting mother****ers at the poker table, and all he has to do is push a button to let us watch.

Well, duecescracked is okay, I guess.. but for my poker education dollar, I like to go with someone a little more tried and true.. I go with...


Sit-N-Go Domination....

I'm in awe, Mac. I had no clue there was an even worse course on the market.

I don't know...

Daniel, I'm sorry but after looking at that guy and reading Deathdonkey's resume on Deucescracked, I am going to cancel my subscription to PVT and hire him. How in the hell are you going to compete with that resume? You have a pro that can't even beat Jamie Gold for the Main Event! Besides, I think that you have a girl working for you that isn't even old enough to play in my casino.

Canada may be the linchpin of the English speaking world, but I don't even know what street Canada is on?

Is it true that you are completely broke and that's why your mom made all your food during the WSOP? I heard that you couldn't even get a comp for the buffet at the RIO?

Thanks for all the help but I'm heading to the STABLE at DEUCESCRACKED! They have REAL stallions in their field! If I had a real stud working for me, I would have won THREE seats to the Main Event!

One last thing, I still want your action at the Venetian. I'll pay your $145 entry into the Tuesday Venetian tournament, but you'll have to come up with the $5 bonus. I need you to win though because I need $200 for an hour of coaching from my new coach, datwit. They told me that if I can get up to playing 2-4 limit, I can become a coach and make $300 an hour!

GL and thanks again!

I guess "knows a lot about math and game theory" doesn't fill out a resume like tournament results, but I doubt there are many people without an interest in the success of PVT who honestly believe it's a better product than DC.

(For cash games, anyway. I didn't realize people even still played tournies.)

You're right! That's why I'm leaving PVT. When I read that I can give Blumpster $250 an hour to teach me Stud 8, I was sold.

When I read...

"Although I do not have a lot of poker coaching experience, I have a lot of teaching experience (as a Teaching Assistant at UCLA in advanced undergraduate courses), and I am confident in my ability to improve the skills of my students.

Rate: $250"

I said SOLD!!!!!

Besides, I have mastered the PVT site and have a complete grasp on that broke Daniel Negreanu. That guy couldn't even take down the player of the year! I have come to realize that it just isn't worth it to wait for a has been pro that can barely afford to play 4000/8000 anymore. When I saw all the player of the year winner's and high stakes Bellagio players in the STABLE, I knew it was for me!

Sorry, I have to go. They are teaching me how to contact friends to fill a table and how to instant message our hands and use our math skills to calculate if I should call when my friend says he has one of my outs.

The psychotic level to which you praise this site can mean only one of two things, Paul....


1) you a joke account, and this is an elaborate level... If so, then Kudos to you, you're hilarious.


2) If you're not a joke, you're an obvious shill for Poker VT. Your account was created at the start of the Poker VT era, and all of your posts are praising poker VT. Which means, more than likely, you are DN himself, or someone else who works for Poker VT. What you are doing is shameful and dishonest, and only a thin slice above Micon's "testamonials"



You've sunk to the level of Micon, team Poker VT. Gratz.

Listen: I'm sorry if I came off as a bit of an ass, and it's my understanding that you've had some success with PVT, but most of those Deuces Cracked guys really are phenomenal. They have a much better understanding of the tangible, teachable aspects of poker than DN does, and have a hell of a lot more experience with online poker, and more importantly with actually using those concepts to turn players into solid, pro-caliber winners.

Anyone looking to learn to beat various cash games is way, WAY better off with Deuces Cracked or even Stox or Cardrunners, whether or not their instructors have dazzling public images.

Maybe live, DN is a much better player than Bryce or Death Donkey, but that doesn't mean his videos are as good or as voluminous, and a lot of those skills that make him a better player are either not really very teachable or don't apply to online poker, which is what most of us play. It's just a better product. I'm not making this up.

DeathDonkey is married. That is all.

There goes that fantasy...

It's true that PVT does lack in the content department but in my opinion you won't find a site that has better variety than PokerVT.
Can't tell you how much the Q&A has helped my play improve, its like an online coach ... whenever you stumble upon something you wondering about
you most likely will find it answered in the Q&A section.

The thing that is lacking is the online video's of them playing ... other than that I dont really see what the big problem is .... you probably have up to 100 hours of content and you feel that is not enough? If you have that mindset than it will never be enough ... you will allways feel like there isnt enough videos to make you improve.

PVT would be a fine product. 100 hours is certainly a large-sounding amount, without perspective. If this were 5 years ago and this were to come along, I'd think it was pretty cool. But it's stepped into a competitive market where it's probably the worst (nonMicon-endorsed) option I've seen. I'll ignore Mac's point that all PTV apologists seem suspiciously combative and shill-like and simply assume that you're defending your decision to spend a LOT of money on a product people are attacking, and people are getting a little upset about it. I'm not trying to cause trouble, I was just agreeing with the commonly voiced sentiment that PVT is just not even close to as good as its competitors.

I'm sure it helps people's games more than nothing, but if you're subscribing to one site, from what I've seen, it's pretty much either CR or DC, in my opinion.

It's not that much money in my opinion ... but the situation might be different for a student.
Im sure there is "better" alternatives on the market right now considering amount of content ... but you have to realize that pokerVT is fairly new and they are probably still figuring out how they want their site to be like (adding new coaches, who does what etc) and what they are gonna do for future. My point is that the content available today should be enough to make you a winning player ... you dont want to have the mindset that "Oh this is not enough to make me a good player , that site has 1000 more videos live coaches and someone to hold my hand". I think that people are often way to early to judge something that is new compared to the competitors. But I can see your point that you probably can get more videos per dollar on other sites.

Not just more: better. I'm sure it could make you a winning player. Just not as completely or easily.

If the site is still getting its shit together, call me when it's together. No point in my dishing out $30/month, plus $120 up front, when the content is really not ready.

This isn't a cause I would normally involve myself in, but Dutch is right. DeucesCracked is amazing. If you want to improve as a poker player in pretty much any game other than MTTs, your money is going to get you more videos, better content, and more variety at DC. It's not anything against the PVT guys, it's just that the DC coaches has been around for a lot longer. They have had more time to put content up, more time to figure out what works, tons more feedback from subscribers, more time to add talent to their coaching roster, and more experience in making videos and coaching. Hopefully PVT will get there quickly, but it's unreasonable to expect them to be that good this early.

As an aside, I'm pretty sure DC is much cheaper as well.

It's so amazing. Even after the vlog with Daniel people still think I am a joke account.

1) No, I am not a joke account.
2) No, I don't make a dime off PVT but I have done extremely well because of it. I can't place it on anything else. Tried most of the other stuff and it just didn't work.
3) You must be a rep from DC if you are that hell bent on expecting PVT to have all the content up in just a few months. How much are they giving you to come here and blast one of the best start up sites on the internet?

Once again, here's my little fat ass on Rawvegas and no I haven't recieved a penny from them.

http://www.rawvegas.tv/watch/daniel-negrea...da83a99347df0df

This is where I disagree - as i've said in my 'leaving PVT' thread, I much prefer DC for cash, but there is ZERO reason for PVT to be this far behind the competition.

When you start a new product you should view the competition and see how you could improve it, not release and produce content far FAR below what other established products do. I do understand PVT is relatively new to market, and so obviously it will have less content and the releases may take a little longer, but there is no excuse for releasing content so eductionally poor in terms of online cash games

This argument could certainly have some merit. I do not subscribe to PVT, so the content could be of lower quality than I assumed.

1) I believe that.
2) I don't believe that.
3) I don't even know what DC is, and I've said nothing what so ever in support of them, so thank you, come again. I haven't really blasted poker at all yet, (other than the implication in my "owned" post that CR is a better product, and the poster was owned for thinking otherwise). I don't have Poker VT, so I really can't make an educated comment about it. I would, however, never, ever, ever get poker Vt, without a vast amount of positive commentary from people's opinion that I trust ( IE not you) . The reason for this? Past History. Brand Negraneu has been slapping it's name onto all kinds of poker related garbage for years ( Poker Mountain, Stacked, instructional Videos, etc). DN's endorsement of something is not an endorsement I trust Sorry DN, but that's the brutal truth. So I am completely unshocked that people are dissatisfied with the Poker VT product, given past history.

That video proves exactly nothing, by the way. The person in that video could be an actor, the person in that video could be a Team Negraneu employee ( how many random fans has DN ever put in his Vblog before?). And there's nothing that should make me believe that you are that person, or that you are legitimately just an unbiased DN and poker vt fan. All of your posts suggest otherwise. The psychotic, absurd degree to which you defend poker vt is extremely suspicious. It's seems much more likely to me that you're a shill than you're a psychotic, love-struck fan.

Zero reason? There's a very good reason for it. Products like CR have to build a following based on their content alone, as none of the people who put out videos for them are really "famous" or have fan bases, so their products must be superior, or no one would buy them. DN has a large fan base, a famous name, and there for doesn't need a superior product to attract people. Poker VT can attract customers based solely on his endorsement alone. It's amazing how many times that has worked over the years.

When I saw Paul's first post I cringed a little since I knew that some people would see his over the top enthusiasm as shilling.

As far as I know he is just a real person who loves Poker Vt and loves to babble about it. If they were going to shill they wouldn't do it at FCP since there's no need for it and they certainly wouldn't do it in such an over the top fashion.

A cynic with your personality BigD may not understand how somebody can react the way that Paul does but there are a lot of people out there who react to things like Paul does whether it's being a fan of a band or something else. A lot of people like to feel a connection to something and feel that they belong.

My connection to Poker VT is just through the fact that Daniel is a friend of mine and I reviewed some of the content as a favour before the site launched for feedback and quality control. Matt works directly for Poker VT mostly involved in marketing.

okay, I can understand how someone who is a fan of something can be rabid, I'll grant you that. However, I think it's extremely silly to let your fandom effect a judgment that should be wholly based on profit potential. If you have a large budget for many poker instructional videos, then I suppose it doesn't matter, but if you're making a zero sum, either/or decision, then letting your fandom determine what product you buy, rather than it's expected value, is just foolish.


It's not just his rabid fandom of DN that's supsicious, however, Bob. It's his rabid and irrational discrediting of other instructional sites that makes him truly suspicious. We're talking about educational material here, Bob, not sports teams. That makes very little sense to me at all if he's not a shill.


I will say this.. I know I've blasted you and the other mods, and DN's endorsement history a whole bunch in the past. I think it's to your, this forum's and DN's credit that you continue to let dissenting voices speak. I would have put a wager 2 years ago that you all would have banned me by now, and I would have lost that bet. So Kudos to you all.

Here's my theory on Paul and his reaction to Poker VT. Keep in mind that I've never met or spoken to him so it's just a theory but it may explain part of his attitude to PokerVT and to other training sites.

Paul started at PokerVT and shortly after that went on a huge heater in some tournaments which is something that he had never done before. It's natural for him to put a lot of the credit for that success on what he learned at Poker VT from Daniel's Small Ball section.

Even for somebody who has had some other instruction Daniel's section could be an eye opener and maybe something in it clicked for Paul the way that other instruction hasn't before. You have to remember that the way that Daniel presents his Small Ball section is different than the way other sites have presented things. Also to my knowledge there hasn't been criticism of that section of Poker VT unlike some of the legitimate concerns over the current content for online cash games.

Yeah, I agree with much of what has been said.
PVT is way behind the competition. And tbh, I don't a sh!t about apologies or excuses, in business and in life, results count. That means putting up more videos, with more quality, not explaining the reason why there are no videos up.
I know DN is the most popular player in the world n all, but if the site is crap, it doesn't matter how much DN says its good, people won't join it. Put your hand and admit that the site has been crap so far. Now go and try to fix this and attract new and former customers.

Also, the so-claimed revolutionary small-ball section was far from revolutionary, that's just imo though.

I am honest guy. If the site was good, I'd praise. But it's not.


And there has to be one or two joke/marketing accounts for PVT giving fake reviews. I dunno if Paul is or not, but he seemed fake ever since his first post.

Calling the site crap is way harsh in my opinion. The smallball course is very well done and if you combine that with the hand analyse video's you get a very very solid view of how smallball is played and practised. As I said earlier I think they have alot to improve on the video's of them playing cash games and tournaments while commenting. I cannot see how you can drag down pokervt in the other places ... the smallball course is very good , hand analyse course is very good , the math course is very good , also them answering question is very good ... the site is very "theoretical" atm but that is only becuase they lack videos of them playing compared to the other stuff. Give it some time and im sure they will deliver in that department to.

FYP

I'm not a huge cynic by nature, i don't reckon Paul is a jopke account - he's only been subjected to one side of PVT though and i've never had a problem with the content put on by DN. If he was solely relaint on PVT for cash im sure he, or anyone else, would have an entirely different viewpoint.

I've tried to be as patient as anyone grinding micro limits can be, but the info i've gained from FCP strat/challenge and having people rail (or watching CR, DC vids) crushes what little i've picked up from PVT cash.

FWIW, i've seen some of JC's HU cash and I think that has potential - i still think the games should be broken down more systematically, and tbh I don't think I should have had to try and get this across for the past few months on here. Ppl teaching poker should understand how to break it down (or at least research into ways to do it), being sick players alone doesn't cut it.

Oh there's no doubt, that if Paul is real, that he's been extremely results oriented and borderline superstitious. But I still don't think their's anything " natural" about his rabid enthusiam for poker vt and his irrational derision of the competitors. Maybe I'm just a cynic, and he is just a loon, that's certainly a possibility. But the choices are loon or shill, I see no other explanation.



as for the small ball verses cash game section thing. I have heard talk on other sites that is highly critical of small ball theory as it applies to online poker tournaments, as online tournaments rarely have the correct structure for it ( IE the blinds and ante's rise too quickly, and your M is rarely (if ever) large enough to employ it properly. There is something that is surely valuable from learning small ball theory, but it's far from universally accepted that small ball has practical application for the vast amount of tournaments that most players actually play in.


The thing is this... I don't know what DN's online results are like. No one can really know other than him. If I were to make a wager, I would be that DN is a lifetime loser online. DN's success has been primarily from playing live, in cash and tournaments. And some of DN's greatest assest's can't really be taught or aren't applicable to online play ( IE reading players tells, using chit chat to get a read on players, manipulating weak players with his banter, his mystical ability to read what a player has). So, I'm not sure how valuable DN's advice is about the type of poker playing the vast amount of people who would go to his site us.. IE online mirco limits and tournaments. His competitors are all successful online pros, who worked their way up from the mirco limits, cash and tournaments, and learned how to be successful online players, starting from the bottom. I would think that type of advice would be more valuable to most players than how to win a five day 10k live tournament. Ultimately, Poker VT will attract people with DN's name... but if they want to keep people, and if they want to be respected as a legitimate poker educational resource, and not just DN cashing in on his name, then Poker VT's non-small ball content is going to have to be really, really good. That content will only be good if they have extremely good online cash and tournament players making great videos, and not just great players but great players who can teach.

QFT

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't even have it and yet you have made your mind up. What the hell do I have to do? Video the results. HELL! You'd just tell me that I hired everyone at the Horseshoe and paid all their entries to lay down. You haven't even tried the site for free and I'm the damn loon!?

Ok, BigD. Let me start over. I am not a joke account. I am just a guy that has been playing for a year or so with little success. I tried all the other crap and when I got Daniel's book and Pokevt, something clicked. I in no way thought that by posting a positive review that showed the success I had that all the guys here would bomb me. I am totally new to this posting stuff and didn't realize that I had to post here and agree with all the other guys post and kiss ass to gain their trust before I could say, "Guys, I signed up with Pokervt and won two seats into the Main Event, and cashed in 11 out of 14 tournaments. I have been on a heater for four months now."

As far as "fandom", I never met the guy and only watched him a couple of times. I've met all the guys and I guess you could say I am a fan of Doyle Brunson's but I have to respect the guy that put up the site that showed me how to play. If I had seen this success with DC then I would be over there being bashed I guess. I didn't. I read everything I could and tried sites with my friends and never caught on until PVT.

Bob is partially right about my excitement and learning curve. I am a reasonably new player and didn't know anything about position or half the stuff on the site. I tried other sites but for some reason it just didn't get through to me the way his site did. I don't understand why someone can come in like some of the bashers here do and it's great, but if you want to be excited and truthful about your results you become a shill! How do we know that all these guys are pros with DC or other sites? WHO CARES?!

I have to admit, and I know that it will come as a great comfort to a lot of you that I am signing off. I know, call everyone over for a party. This is the most negative site I have ever seen. It doesn't do any good to post here anyway. Most of the guys here aren't here to learn. They just want to argue. If you have a positive about your results or want to post your political views, if they aren't the same views from the guys that are here all the time, they kick the shit out of you again and send you on your way. Daniel even has me on his vlog to prove my results and now I'm a freakin actor! I still can't understand what the hell caused everyone here to hate me for posting my success and my excitement about pokervt. If you come in here raising hell and telling everyone that they suck, including Daniel, you are given a medal. If you post positive results, they kick the shit out of you!

As far as being paid, I assure you that I have not recieved one penny! I have paid for my account and the only thing I have had is shit from just about everyone out there for saying that I had never won crap until I signed on. Like I said, I even had to cancel one of me email accounts because everyone was bombing me there telling me that I was a shill and a joke account and that they would believe it when they saw me on PVT! I'M NOT A FREAKIN COACH! I'M JUST A LITTLE FAT GUY THAT WINS TOURNAMENTS BECAUSE OF POKERVT! IT'S REALLY THAT SIMPLE!

For the guys at PVT and Daniel, I am truly sorry if I hurt the site by posting positive results and getting all hyped up about it. Apparently I even have to be explained by BOB now. Good luck to all the guys out there that were emailing me and posting your results. Keep it up and hopefully these crazy little bastards will leave you guys alone and be happy with my death on the site. I was told that it was completely crazy on this site before I came here but I had no idea that it was just a site made for a handful of teenagers that wait to run guys off. Even a guy that hasn't even tried the damn site get's more respect for his review of the site than someone that has been very successful with it.

The one thing I am upset with the guys at PVT is that when you post positive results and take up for the site, they more or less let you be a martyr. Thanks guys! I'm done with the site. I don't include Daniel in this because he tried to do what he could with the vlog.

Edit: The only thing that I request of the PVT guys is that they put a forum on PVT so that we can avoid all this crap for those of us that want to post results, ask questions, and have a real conversation with PVT members instead of being ripped apart by the young punks on this site. Being left out on the highway waiting for a bus to hit me is almost enough to cancel PVT. I can't believe you guys won't give us a site without the teenage crap. You know this crap exist and you allow it anyway.

Bye!

It's the usual teenage internet bashing .... when they hear about someone having success and they cant do the same they want to drag you down... same people that doesnt improve.

true or false, Paul is also bashing other posters who talk about other training sites that are tbh vastly superior to PVT. Other things may not have worked for him and then PVT did, but that's not true for others. PVT isn't the sole way to improve.

Again, Paul, I'm sure you had great success, and I'm sure some of that sick run was skill you developed with PVT, but that's just not what our case is about.

If you are completely for real, it's hard to fault us for suspecting you're not; even Bob more or less admits that you at least seem a bit dogmatic to the point of drawing suspicion. I wish you the best, and I'm sorry if I was a dick in my first post or two, and as Mac noted I respect the fact that this discussion is allowed to go on here, but as it stands, as a fairly well-respected poster (in some regards, anyway), I feel like I should note that, if you play cash games anyway, if you're looking to subscribe to one site, PVT just doesn't offer up a compelling advantage over DC or CR to even begin to make up for its shortcomings. I understand that it's hard to build a library so fast, but tough. Offer dirt-cheap introductory rates until you can offer me a competitive product, or I'm not going to buy it.

I see your point ... I just get the impression that most people bash him becuase he has done well and is very positive about his experience with PokerVT when other people have a totally different experience.

I can at least speak for Dink, Mac and myself when I say that this is not at all the case.

Yep. Not even close.

I do trully appologize to DC for all the bashing. I am just growing tired of hearing that DC is great and PVT sucks. I did try their site through a friend but never caught on. Just like it may sound like I am completely a joke account for PVT, it also sounds the same for DC because that's all I hear now.

Again, I am really sorry if I got out of line. I wish PVT would put a forum up for the members so that I would never have to read anything on this site ever again. Likewise, I would never bother the REAL members of this site.

If anyone has ever read my first post, they would see that I am a tournament player and hardly ever play cash. I have stated that I can only speak for tournaments. I do win my entries at cash games a lot when I show up early but I can't really say that is enough to post a positive for fulltime cash games.

Sorry!

Can DN just get him a BFF necklace so we can end this whole charade?

I am not bashing just to bash, rayen. This guy is so irrationally, unexaminedly pro-VT, that I'm extremely suspicious. I may be a paranoid and cynical person, I grant that, but when someone pusts stuff like...



they sound like a script from a bad infomercial.


Also, I am not bashing on poker vt just to bash on it. I think DN has an extremely poor endorsement record, I do not trust the site just because he put his name on it, and any objective review I've heard of the site has been unfavorable or mixed. I think my supposition that the success or failure of poker vt will depend on the quality of the Internet pro teaching talent DN hires for the site is an absolutely fair one, and one team poker vt should take to heart. Despite what Paul thinks, the internet poker educational market is an extremely competitive one, with many excellent options for the consumer. If you are entering an extremely competitive market, you either have to have a superior product or have superior marketing to succeed, I would hope poker VT would strive for the superior product, but past history is any indicator, it's success ( if it has success) will be based on it's marketing to DN fans. If you wonder why I have such a harsh view, pick up a copy of Stacked from the dollar video game pile at your local pawn shop.






Have you ever considered expressing your appreciation for DN and pokerVT in pottery instead of in fanatically loyal posts?

Can I still get that in the gift shop at the Wynn? Or the reward store on PokerMountain?

Anyway, not that anyone asked but here's my take on the whole thing. The problem here is that you're charging first class rates for a third class site. To have a "signup" fee for a brand new venture with minimal content is laughable. If anything, there should be no up front fee and the monthly rate for the first 6 months should have been half what you would normally charge. DC has no signup fee, a free 7 day trial in which you can go on and download as much content as you want with no restrictions on how/when/where you can watch it, and that's a site with a proven track record and a library of videos light years ahead of VT.

Be realistic. Drop the "signup fee" immediately. Let people see what's on the site. Build up a content library. Put the interests of your fans/followers/students ahead of your pocketbook for a change. THEN once you have a top class site, word of mouth advertising and buzz will bring in more customers and you'll have a way to justify charging top dollar for what then will be a solid valuable product.

Actually, I think you get it as a sign up bonus for being a Full Contact Poker Room charter member.

You know what's funny? I've been here from like the first month, and I'm pretty sure I never bothered to sign up as a "charter member." Do you guys have like secret handshakes or anything?

no, it was a charter member for that short lived PokerRoom.com skin, "Full Contact Poker"... if you signed up for it, you'd become a... "Charter Member", which would have immediate and undisclosed on-going benefits.

Yeah, I remember, but there was a "charter registration" thing on the main page, I recall. Maybe it had nothing to do with my forum account, but I used to play on there a billion years ago, and I never signed up for the famous "charter membership."