Hello all,

Obviously, I am new to this forum. I'm going to give you all some info on my poker background first, so you'll have a pretty good idea of what kind of level I'm on before starting to use Poker VT. I've played Texas Hold'em with friends and family members many times in the past, just for fun, and for some years, I've enjoyed watching the WSOP, WPT, and other televised poker events. A few years ago, I signed up for Pokerstars and played on the play money tables for awhile. I couldn't seem to "get it" though, and eventually lost interest.

Over the last few months, my interest has really picked back up though, and I signed up for Pokerstars again several weeks ago. This time, I had some success on the play money tables. I figured most people would play differently when real money was involved though. After a few weeks of playing a few hours every day on play money tables, my curiosity got the best of me, and I started trying my hand in some real money micro stakes tournaments, SNGs, and cash games, to get a feel for what it was like, and the differences in play between real money games vs. play money games.

Like seemingly everyone, after a few of these, I won a little money (very little) here and there, and I was hooked. In the 14th tournament I played in, which was a $1 buy-in, I placed 280th out of 1,960 people, winning $2. This, of course, filled me with confidence, and fueled me to play more and more. Two tournaments later, in another $1 buy-in, I placed 126th out of 2,120 people, winning $3. Again, this added more fuel to my fire. A few tournaments later, I tried a $3 rebuy, and placed 147th out of exactly 3,600 people. I was really proud then. I then cooled off and went 11 more tournaments without cashing, then had my best finish yet, placing 33rd out of 1,710. I have since had a few other decent cash finishes, but I am plagued by inconsistency. Also, I haven't had a significant enough cash finish to offset what I've spent in buy-ins, so I currently have a negative ROI. I seem to have plateaued, and haven't been able to get to the next level, where I can make it to final tables, and eventually win.

Just when I thought I had reached a point where I knew a little something about poker, I came across fullcontactpoker.com a few days ago and discovered pokervt.com and the Poker VT program. It was then when I realized that I know virtually nothing about poker. After checking out pokervt.com and taking the tour, I came to the Poker VT section in this forum. I began reading the reviews and opinions about the program. The vast majority of the reviews were incredibly positive, and I found Paul Brevard's review (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=124161) and success with the program especially compelling.

Due to all of this, I have decided to take the plunge. I just signed up for the Poker VT program, and am about to start it. I will update this thread to include what I think of Poker VT, updates on my progress in the program, how I perform once I begin applying what I learn, how I think it's affected my individual poker skills, etc., and I welcome your feedback.



Thank you for reading,


Josh Bell


(For anyone interested, my username here is the same one I use on Pokerstars.)

Sounds like you're on the right track, good luck!

Thanks Adam!

This will also serve as kind of a journal to help me track my own progress, so in time, I can look back and see how much I've learned and how far I've come.

I watched all of the videos in Daniel's beginner course last night. It was an excellent course, and seemed well thought out and right on track for a beginner. This tight, aggressive strategy is similar to what I've been using for the most part. I wasn't betting as big as Daniel suggests, but I wasn't playing in deep stack tournaments either. Also, I had only minimal understanding of position. This course has given me a better idea of how to use position to determine what hands to play.

Since I've already been employing this strategy for the most part (for cash games, and 80 tournaments, including SNGs), I'm wondering if it would be safe for me to go ahead and start the small ball course or not. Any opinions or suggestions?


Also, Adam, or anyone else qualified, I'm an online player, and as such, I'm currently interested primarily in increasing my online playing skills. When do you suggest I begin the online playing courses? Should I wait until after taking the small ball and/or math courses, or would it be safe to go ahead and jump right into them?



-Josh

Hey Josh,

You don't need to approach learning poker so systematically. When I first started learning I just played a lot, read a lot, watched various training videos, etc. Ideally you have a friend you can talk to (I met most of my poker-playing peers on 2+2) to bounce ideas off of, keep you motivated, and just discuss poker with.

Anyone can watch a video or read a book - but it's those who apply the information they learn, and understand the reasoning behind those decisions are the one's that really shine.

Just from the tone of yours posts you sound extremely enthusiastic about poker, and it's really great to hear. Our online library of videos has low to high stakes, so I'm sure you'll be able to find something there. I wouldn't be too worried as far as what order you watch the material, but it's silly o think thatand naive t once you've watched a video, that you've absorbed all the information. Take your time, use all the resources available to you, and you'll do great.

Hey Adam,

Thank you for the tips. They are much appreciated. I am definitely very enthusiastic about poker, and about learning all that I can about it.

I've watched all of the videos in the first 3 math courses today, and I agree that only some of the information is absorbed the first time through, especially in this math section! It's incredibly intuitive though, and as a few others have said, Prof. Swayne does a good job of explaining things. Still, I will be re-watching many of these videos - some of them multiple times, as I will many of the other videos in Poker VT, I'm sure. I only wish I had this stuff on CD, so I could put it on repeat, and listen to it while I sleep, absorbing it all night long.

I'm kind of afraid to play now, until I watch more videos, absorb more training, and learn more. With so much to learn, I'm afraid I won't be very confident at a table now, knowing there's so much valuable, strategic information I haven't learned yet, and so many skills I have yet to develop. I can hardly wait to apply the things I'm learning though.

I think I'm going to take a break from the math for a bit , and go ahead and start watching some of the material on online play. I'm really anticipating the wealth of knowledge in that section. I'll do that for a bit, then I'll probably go ahead and start on the small ball course.

Don't fear mistakes, learn from them.

Day 3:

Late last night and today, I watched a variety of videos in the Online Instruction section, and completed half of the small ball course. Both included brilliant material. Everything I've seen so far in Poker VT has been smart, intuitive, and very educational.

Adam, how do you play so many tables at the same time and still manage to read your opponents at each table?

I'm about to watch a few more videos, then I'm going to play some poker. Since I started this program, I haven't played at all, and it's about to kill me!

I got in on a small stakes cash game earlier, and practiced using small ball. Within a short while, I had increased my starting amount 4x. The most I can remember ever increasing it in one sitting in the past was 2x, so that's a definite improvement! I feel like I'm already getting a better read on opponents. I'm stealing better. I'm losing far fewer pots. And, not only am I gaining a better understanding of position play from Poker VT, but I felt like I did a rather good job of implementing it tonight.

Thats good just make sure that at cash you under stand its value betting more and blind stealing less. Its for a couple very simple reasons, first is blinds dont increase at a cash game , and second you dont have to get every chip in the tournament you just want to be up at the end. I know it doesnt go in what daniel talks about but the players at those stakes are so bad so you dont have to play small pots always. If you have a big hand work on building the pot becasue guess what??? the call too much. At cash bet for value and you should also make slighly bigger pf raises. 3x or 3.5x.

Watch boosted J vids he pots(3.5x or mor if there is limpers) like all his pf raises.

keep up the good work and SSNL value bet value bet value bet

Day 5: (It's now September 13th in my time zone, but I started writing this on the 12th)

Unfortunately, I've been ill yesterday and today and have been able to do very little training and very little playing. I managed to get in on a few more cash games, still having the same increased success I mentioned the other day. I haven't felt up to doing much else though. I'm really hoping I'll feel better tomorrow, because I'd like to get in on at least one or two mtt's this weekend.





First of all, thanks for reading, BigRob. What you said certainly makes sense. I definitely noticed almost all of my opponents calling waaaay too much. For the most part, I was playing right along the lines of what you've suggested. I was using slightly larger pf raises (3x) simply because the blinds were so small and people were calling anyway. I was trying to play pots more than steal, taking advantage of players' post-flop mistakes, and would build the pot when I had a big hand. Almost everyone was bluffing way to often with little or no hand at all, and I was reading pretty accurately. Sometimes even when I didn't have a big hand, I'd still build the pot, because I knew my opponent was bluffing or calling with nothing. I was right every time, and would take down bigger pots this way on occasion. It amazed me how many people just couldn't bring themselves to fold, even when they had a hand like 10 high with no shot at a draw and me betting on every street.


- Josh

I can't agree more. When you make your mistakes, right them down and make a journal and study them. You can break down everything, including those EUREKA moments and you will find that PVT will serve as a great source for success. I am still seeing at least one final table a week and the money keeps rolling in.

Keep it up and I will keep reading about your success. Keep us informed and if you need anything at all, just write!

Paul

Day 6:

I've got some family stuff to do this afternoon, but when it's over, poker time! I'm going to review some of the videos I've watched, and if I have time, watch a couple I haven't seen yet. Then tonight, I'm going to play poker until I can't hold my eyes open any longer. I want to play an mtt, but I also want to do some SNGs and HUs. I'll decide tonight when I'm ready to play which of those I'm most in the mood for. I'll update afterward, either tonight or tomorrow, on how it went.






Dually noted!

Tonight has been a disaster. I found an mtt I wanted to play in. I still had awhile before it was supposed to start, so I thought that while I was waiting, I'd try a heads up game. I jumped into a small stakes heads up game, and before long, I realized it was a mixed game of some sort. It kept changing to games I've never even played, and didn't know how. Needless to say, that didn't go well.

I then got into another HU game, this time making sure it was NLHE. I took the lead right from the start, and it was going well. I was up to about 2100 chips, with my opponent right around 900. He then started going all-in every single hand. I was folding, and he was quickly stealing a lot of chips from me. It wasn't long before he'd gotten back up to about 1250, and had me down to about 1750. He was still going all-in every hand, and I was getting really tired of it.

Finally, I got QQ, and as I expected, he went all-in again. I called. He had A-3 offsuit. Naturally, he flopped a straight! I was livid.

By this time, the mtt I had planned on joining had already started, and I decided that considering the frame of mind I was in, it was probably best that I didn't join an mtt anyway. I decided, instead, to play a small stakes cash game, and just take it easy and chill out. For some reason though, something possessed me to play two cash games simultaneously, which I had never done before. One bad thing after another kept happening. Neither game went well at all, and I ended up losing most of what I made over the last few days.

I finally realized it was time to quit, and I got out. I know now that I should've done that after Mr. All-In Every Hand beat my pocket queens with ace-rag, because he flopped a straight. Unbelievable.

Day 7:

This morning, I played a single table SNG, and won. That was my first SNG win. It was actually my first 1st place finish in anything in poker, so I was happy about that. I then spent most of the day watching a variety of PVT videos.

This evening, I joined a 45 person/5 table SNG and busted out pretty early. Afterward, I jumped into another one just like it. It went much better, and I finally made it to my first final table in an mtt. Even though it was only a 5 table mtt, it still felt good.

After 2 more people getting eliminated, some blind stealing, and a bit of back and forth chip swapping, I was 4th in chips, with 2nd and 3rd in close reach. I was then dealt Ad-7d in first position. I almost always fold ace-rag in first position. Something compelled me to play this hand though. We were at $400/800 blinds with a $50 ante, and I had $10,387 in chips. Being in first position, and with my chip stack, I was afraid to raise 3x the blinds, because I knew there was the chance of someone shoving all in behind me. I didn't want to bet $2,400 only to have to fold to an all-in bet, and I didn't want to call an all-in bet with ace-rag. I min-raised to $1,600.

Everyone folded all the way around the table, until it got to the BB. He re-raised, but only the min-raise to $2,400. I called. The flop came 2d-As-9d, giving me top pair and a flush draw. My opponent had displayed a pretty tight range of hands up to this point, and I was expecting him to have an ace too, probably with a better kicked. I checked to see if he'd bet. He checked.

Here comes the turn 7s, giving me 2 pair. I decided to try slow play it in an effort to maximize profit. I checked again, and this time he bet $800. I called. The river came 10c, and I checked. He bet $4,800. Again, I had put him on a pair of aces, with probably a good kicker. I shoved all in, and he called. He had pocket tens, beating my two pair with a set that he rivered. I finished in 7th place. I was happy to finish in the money, but I felt like after making it that far, I could've and should've lasted longer and gotten a better finish.

Looking back on it, it's easy to say I shouldn't have slow played it. It's easy to say I should have bet every street and/or tried to take it down after I made the second pair on the turn. In the moment though, having put him on no more than top pair, slow playing it seemed like the right idea.

For anyone reading this, how would you have played it?

[quote name='StuffandJunk' date='Sunday, September 14th, 2008, 5:43 PM' post='2791063']
I think you should have bet the flop and turn because if you are beat by a better ace you still have alot of pot equity and you are protecting your hand. I know sometimes DN says you should check back if you are likely to be out drawn but I dont feel this is one of those spots. I think a standard cbet on the flop is fine and obviously once the 7 falls a good healthy VB is a better play. Look playing small stakes playing fancy is rarely best unless you have a great reason too. I dont mind the check so much on the flop if you think he has a better ace to control the pot but fire the turn for sure. Something I learned the hard way is it is better to win an average pot than to lose your whole stack. Also if you are trying to use DN's small ball strategy do you really want to put your whole stack in the middle with out the nuts. It is ok to win small ones also. If you dont bet the flop or the turn how could you ever set up a callable bet on the river to get someones whole stack. You said you wanted to maximze profit but by putting in no money doesnt do you any good with a strong hand unless you know hes bluffing the rurn. And if you put him on a better ace like you mentioned then bet the turn every single time.Like the hand in the Junglen, Negreanu Hu Sng where Junglen flops a J and DN hits a 9. Adam talks about setting up stacks to get it in on the river. Watch that to understand what I am saying. Be careful of Fancy play syndrome.

Yeah, I've watched the Junglen, Negreanu HU, and I know what you mean. You raise some good points. I'm still comfortable with not betting the flop. The turn, I should have bet, but I feel now like check-raising may have been an even better play. He likely would've called, and that would've made up for the lack of any bet on the flop, both from a money standpoint, and from a strength and protection standpoint. I then could have led out with a value bet on the river to maximize profit. Of course, he likely would've shoved at the river anyway after getting his 10. I kind of almost wish I had shoved post-flop. I have this theory that on pokerstars, big raisers, especially an all-in change the outcome of the cards. He may have folded, which would have been great, but with pocket 10s, he probably would've called, and if my theory is correct, we would have seen a different turn and river, allowing my top pair to beat his tens, or maybe i would've even completed the Flush draw. The river card could've been a 10d to compete my flush and his set, leaving me with the winnings. That would have been ideal, lol. Unforunately it wen the exact opposite. What to you think though, about the revised strategy on that one - no postflop bet, check-raise the turn, then value bet the flop (all under the assumption that we still don't know what his hand is)?


In other news, I played 4 SNGs tonight, and lost all 4. The first 2, I couldn't get a decent hand the entire game, nothing even remotely playable. The 3rd game, I had AK and raised 3x bb (100/200 blinds with i think $25 ante). I toss my 600 in, and the other guy comes over the top all in (which he'd been doing quite a bit). I called. He had AJ and hit a jack on the river. In the 4th game, I made it to the remaning 3. The other 2 guys were very good, having had experience at higher levels of play than what we were on, and they just flat out-played me. I was playing a cash game the whole time I was playing the SNGs though, and I made up for most of when I lost in the SNG entry fees.

Don't over think things. Alot of the plays you see pros make are in higher stakes games, their dealing with better more sophisticated players.. Check Raising,over bet bluffing etc are plays for the pros leave it to them for now unless you have a great reason not to... Look If you just play basically small ball straight forward ABC poker you will do fine. Stick with your strategy when playing smaller raises in position, C bet most flops 60% of the pot. Value bet Value bet Value bet. And If you fire every street on the A7 hand and he calls and hits the ten, oh well cooler. You will make money at small stakes by aggressively value betting and them just not beleiving you. Look you said you are a beginner so don't try to get fancy. Dont look to check raise, look to VB. Once you go up in stakes and you are up against better more aggressive players you will have to add more tricky plays in but you are still learning and just stick with the basics and dont over think. Get holem manager or poker tracker 3 that will help you read players a little quicker. If you do something when playing have a legimate reason. Not I was checking to go for the check raise. It should be because I was looking to check raise because he bluffs every turn in position then can't get away from his hands. Or if you flop a set on an A high board and you think he has an ace then slow playing is great because your hand is pretty un beatable and your read on the opponents says he is agg and will get the money in on a big ace. Justify and plan out your actions based on hand strenght and your opponents hand range and tendencies. If you don't have a read LOOK for them they are there. GL.

That's precisely what I was attempting to do. I thought my opponent had a big ace, and there was an ace on the board. I had 2 pair, and I knew he was going to put his chips in. I was right on that part, as he put the chips in, but it turned out that he'd rivered the set with his pocket tens, which I was totally not expecting.

You're right though, I should play more straight up ABC small ball. For the most part I try to. When I'm in SNGs though, so many players get sneaky and set traps, or I'll go 2 or 3 or 4 SNGs straight without getting so much as a single decent hand. It forces me to try to find other ways to profit, by bluffing more, getting clever and trying fancier plays. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it comes back and bites me in the butt, like it did on that hand.

look when you play an mtt small ball is a trap in itself. If you are aggro then you hit a hand why would you check if you have been betting when you miss or have less than a monster. One it lets you build the pot and two it makes you harder to read. I learned this along time ago when I was sneaking into commerce in LA a couple years back. I have played online for a year or so but live for longer. I watched DN's vid on small ball on you tube and started killing 100 nl at commerce. Little did I now how many mistakes I was making, but I was aggressive in position. Its like a system small raise then 2/3 continuation bet in most spots. If you have faith in it you will flop the nuts make your standard bet and they will "know you are bluffing again" then boom the nuts and you have his stack and he has a story. With expieriece you will learn to not Cbet in some spots and read players. And look I am not saying ABC poker is fit or fold on the flop. But standard raises and standard Cbets will help you in most spots. When in doubt bet unless you are severly short stacked or what ever your great reason is not to.

I find that in MTT's it is best to be very tight agressive in beginning and eventually get more loose agressive when the blinds go up or if you get bigger stack ... say if you have 3 times the stacksize of everyone else early on I would consider starting playing hands like suited connectors while if I only had the starting chips I would mainly focus my play on top 3% hands.

Another thing thats really important that i've noticed is that often in tournaments with small buyin and large prizepool(mostly 1000 entrants+) people tend to play overly tight when you reach just the before bubble ... very good spot to steal pots with semi good hands. Also if you have around 3 times the stacksize that smallblind and bigblind have I will allways go all in if the ante+blinds start to represent around 5-10% of my stacksize and the table is folded to me when im on the button.

i play tight early two because ther is so many loose players in big MTT's

Yes I agree.

Strangely people play like maniacs early on and very passiv in the later stages.
Think it has something to do with building up your chipstack early but if you really think about it ... as long as you stay close to average stack ... even below it at a decent level you are gonna be fine until the blinds go up to a level where you are forced to push ... so there really no rush to get chips fast in my opinion. Generally I find a way to get my opponents to give all their chips when I finally wake up with a hand like KK QQ AA AK or so ... either by overbetting the pot sometimes or underbetting it .... really many bad players out there that gonna push you all in with mediocre hand in those spots.

I wasn't playing an mtt though. I was in a single table sit & go. I also hadn't been c betting every time around hit or miss. I think it was you that posted a thread yesterday or today about not c betting every hand. It's just not practical in online poker. I knew he had a strong and anyway. I should've bet the turn, when I made two pair. I still feel like checking the flop wasn't such a bad idea though. I have a lot to learn still. That's certain. I still foolishly call check-raises now and then. From what I've seen though, c betting every hand you play is rather dangerous on pokerstars. I've cleaned out numerous players now who were doing just that, and I sat and waited, folding every hand until I got a strong starting hand, then flopped the nuts, called their c bets, bet big on the river, acting like I was bluffing with air trying to steal, and took everything they had when they called.

I haven't played a large mtt since starting poker vt. I love mtt's but wanted to hone my skills in smaller games using what I've been learning before trying another big mtt. I couldn't take it any more though. I was itching to play in one, so I played a big mtt this afternoon. I did really well out of the gates. I was well ahead of the average hand size after round 1. I couldn't get so much as even a decent hand at all in round 2 though. I made a couple bad calls while trying to work with what little cards I was being dealt and ended up getting knocked out after having made it through a little more than half the field.


I hadn't played any heads up matches very recently, so I decided to play a few today after being eliminated from the mtt. I played some with a few different stakes. In the lower stakes matches, I didn't do too well. I think I lost 2 and won 1. I don't really remember now. I kind of thought that since it was heads up, the low stakes would be a little different from low stakes ring games and sit & go's. I couldn't have been more wrong. The players in low stakes just don't seem to care at all and will bet big or shove with just about anything. Although I did well, and was winning most of the time in the matches, this eventually led to my downfall. I play 3 hu's with less-low (b/c they weren't high) stakes after that. The players had more skill and weren't betting crazy and shoving with stupid hands. I did better under those circumstances and won all 3 matches, so all combined, I went 4 for 6. I liked the less-low stakes hu's and may find myself playing them more often after today.


I decided I'd play another big mtt tonight tonight. I got in one, and I made it into the money a little while ago. I'm still going, so hopefully I'll make it really deep. Although, my stack is about 19% little below the average stack size at the moment. I've got about 38 bb's though, so I'm still in decent shape. We'll see what happens.

Well, just 2 minutes later I got knocked out. I had A-J offsuit. The guy before me made the min raise, and I called. Another guy then went all in with a stack slightly larger than mine. The guy had been bluffing a lot and had been going all in pretty frequently, usually with junk, so I called. He had A-Q, end of story.


I made it to around the top 10%. I just can't seem to make it to a final table in a big mtt though. Everyone around me can bluff huge and raise all in with junk and call all in with junk, and they get paid off almost every time it seems. I try to go all in as rarely as I can, and somehow I still end up getting knocked out pretty much the same way as this every time.

I didnt say you should never cbet. I think MOST of the time its appropriate but not always.

lol. I didn't say that you said one should never c bet. I said that you said not to c bet every hand, which you did say. I was agreeing with that notion.