Is it possible to believe that Jesus was a higher power but not in god? I've read through many posts here and a majority of Christians say that if you love Jesus, you must love god?

I've always been the way that Jesus was holy but I didn't really believe in god.

???

The biggest problem with this thinking is: If Jesus was not God and the second Person of the Trinity, then He was lying. Can you truly call a person who lied about Who He Is "Holy"?

Wait... are you saying that you believe Jesus was not the son of God...


I'm confused... I've heard people believe the other way... that God exists but that they dont believe Jesus was his son or the messiah.

To answer your question... Yes. Because you can "believe" anything you want so for anyone to say "No you can't believe that Jesus was holy and not the son of God" would be wrong.

I don't know what else to say about that. As a Christian... you wouldn't believe that.

Well, a lot of people tell me that I'm wrong and I thought I would ask. I know it sounds weird.

People that tell you that should look up the definition of "belief".

Since religion is based on faith... there can be no right and wrong when you are talking about "belief".

We use the scriptures as a basis for Christianity but even the interpretation and validity of the writings could be challenged as to their authenticity.

This is wrong. Many times you can't prove right or wrong when talking about beliefs, but that doesn't mean there is no right and wrong. For example, suicide bombers believe that they will get to bone a bunch of virgins when they go to heaven. They are either right or wrong about this...believing and having faith in it doesn't make it beyond reproach.

If you want to challenge the 'accepted' truth you need to re-examine all assumptions and start from scratch.

So...

Step 1) Did Jesus exist?
Step 2) Was Jesus.... oh wait - we get stuck at step 1.

Point is that you can make any claim you want about Jesus and it is based on as much fact as any existing claim.

True dat... I was keeping it on a simpler level.
My point was ... if you believe something that can't be proven to be wrong...then your 'belief' can not be wrong.

Crap.... that makes no sense.

I understand what you are saying... just because mormons believe they will become god of their own planet, doesn't mean they will.
However... I can't say 100% that they are wrong either.

I don't know... I just try to never say someone is wrong because of they way they believe.


Except the mormons... they ARE wrong.


Here's what gets me... why do people give a crap about what other people believe? I mean... if your beliefs aren't costing me money or time or inconvenience, I could care less what someone else believes.


Except the mormons. Bunch of idiots.

by "is it possible" you mean "does it make sense". it makes no more or less sense than believing anything else on faith. it makes no more or less sense than believing jesus was a morally-advanced alien from tau ceti. it makes no more or less sense than believing in the easter bunny.

Hey, leave me the fuck out of it!

This is the post I was looking for. Thanks crow.

Because what you believe has consequences for how you act, and how you act pretty much always affects others.

Just look back to the example about people believing in the 72 virgins after death.. we have good reason to be concerned about this belief. Other beliefs which seem more innocuous may have more insidious consequences even though they are less obvious.

surprised this post hasn't gotten more love, I LOL'd

I agree in principle. The only problem is that, like it or not, religion (in this country, christianity) is all over the place and in our faces all the time. Imagine a world in which the majority of people believe something absolutely ridiculous...say that our universe is the vomit of an intergallactic chihuahua and therefore all chihuahuas should be worshipped as gods. Many crazy and irrational laws and practices that affect you on a constant basis revolve around this belief that you know is totally absurd. I'm exaggerating, of course, but not by that much.

I've never once confronted someone about their beliefs because I think it's rude to ridicule someone who isn't hurting anyone, but in a forum like this the whole point is to have discussions about what we believe (or don't believe) and why.

Very true.

And I agree with the statement about our beliefs effect how we act and behave. I guess I just pay more attention to things I can control, (my beliefs) and not concern myself with things that I can not (others beliefs).

*cue the blind sheep statement*

Kind of like the price of gas. I'm not one to go out a buy a hybrid and complain about the price of gas. I need gas... I go get it. If it ever got to a point where gas prices were affecting my life so much that it consumed my behaviour... I would move to a place where combustion engines weren't the mainstay.

I understand that some atheist here don't like the influence that Christianity has on politics and the governing body of the US... so my question is.. why not move?
That is NOT intended to be a smart-ass statement either...(I know.... seriously though)


I'm gonna get pounded for this one...aint I?


lol

So do I in 99% of my life. I just like talking about this stuff here once in a while. It's not like atheists are out in the street handing out flyers or organizing rallies.



I like it here. My family is here. My friends are here. And I can't accept the "if you don't like it here, move" argument...if everyone thought like that there would never be any progress at all. Don't like that we have slaves? Move. Don't like segregation? Move. Don't like the fact that women can't vote? Move. Don't like child labor? Move.

And so on. If we think that something can be better it's our responsibility to try and do something about it (even through something as simple as voting) instead of running away.

/preaching

The following quotation from the Nobel prize winning physicist Steven Weinberg has become well known, but it is so devastatingly true that it is worth quoting again and again: "With or without [religion] you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."


lol @ the move thing. Nice job adressing it speedzy.

Because religious beliefs often determine what people live for, what they will die for, and--all too often--what they will kill for. An unassailable basis for irrationality is all well and good until the planes start hitting the buildings.

In case anyone is interested, the above is paraphrased from: http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an...eist_manifesto/

I realized my statement may have come across in a way that I had not intended.

"It's not like atheists are out in the street handing out flyers or organizing rallies." -- Not true for my last trip to Washington DC. Wow. It must have been Atheist Week or something... they were everywhere.
Something kind of funny played out... those who have seen "Life of Brian" would appreciate the humor. We accepted flyers from a group called Jews for Jesus and read them while we had lunch. Later in the day... about to enter the White House... we were approached by another group and I said "No thanks...we already have your flyer". My daughter noticed the subtle change... "No Dad..these are the Jesus' Jews for Christians".

"We're not the Judean Peoples Front!! We're the Peoples Front of Judea !"


Anyways... I also didn't mean to imply that if you don't like it here... get out! I seriously would leave to go to another country that had my thoughts and beliefs if I felt strongly about them. (and if Barrack OBama gets elected..I'm claiming canadian...lol)
Mainly because I am a blind sheep and would rather get in line than fight the masses. Life is short.

Go on...



That's the same exact thing, stated slightly differently. Your implication was correct...and I didn't take it as an insult. It's a legit question.