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Full Version: Are We Strong Enough To Give A Free Card?
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > No Limit Texas Hold'em Cash Games
IQCrash
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($21.00)
UTG ($94.45)
UTG+1 ($121.85)
MP1 ($324.80)
Hero (MP2) ($100.00)
CO ($113.85)
Button ($92.00)
SB ($140.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A icon_suit_spade.gif Q icon_suit_spade.gif
2 folds, MP1 calls $1.00, Hero raises to $5.00, 4 folds, MP1 calls $4.00

Flop: ($11.50) K icon_suit_spade.gif J icon_suit_spade.gif A icon_suit_club.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $8.00, 1 fold

Total pot: $11.50


Villain is a very loose aggressive unknown. Running about 62/23 over 50 hands.

Usually he'll fire with any piece of the flop (and often without). I've seen him dump $80+ with Q9o on a A77xx board.

Are we strong enough here to check behind and give him a free card knowing he'll let loose once he gets a piece, or, results aside, do we want to start building the pot?
FizzbinPro
I think you can check the flop and feel okay about it, based on your read. It sounds like he'll bet at you no matter what comes, and you might even get lucky enough for him to catch a lower flush. Maybe he has a pp and will turn a set, but otherwise, you really only need to worry about the three queens, and I'd think he'd 3bet a decent pp preflop. If he does have one and a spade makes his set, there's another really nice opportunity to profit.

I know you've seen me asking for advice in $10NL, but it at least creates a discussion.
cujo33
I think both building the pot, and or checking behind is fine. U have top pair with a nut straight draw, nut flush draw and a royal flush draw, so with an aggressive opponent and having the position on him from the way i play i probably would have checked behind.
az.poker.mind
As I am sure you have thought about, this one can work either way.

Either he hit a hand, has a draw, an under pair, or missed the board all together with something like 7h,8h. He'd probably call $8 (or maybe check-raises) with the first two and pitches the other two in the muck. A check here by you though looks suspicious though and you likely get checked to again on the turn; unless he makes a straight, set, or two pair and wants to protect against a flush draw.

I would have probably made a bet that he could have check-raised. Something like $4 into $11.50. It looks like either a scared continuation bet or a bait bet (which it would be). If he thinks you are sucking him in he would fold, which he did anyway, so you have nothing to lose by giving him the chance to try and steal.
Deftones150
Given the information it seems nearly impossible to narrow his hand range, so.... I'm clueless. Long run a check is probably good but against that guy maybe letting him see a turn before you have more of a read on him is a bad idea since he looks like a luck box.
NoBBiR
I think I just bet and hope he already has a piece and starts moving his chips into the pot. A queen or (non spade) ten on the turn would make you feel like an idiot if he starts betting a lot.

I think a better time to give a free card against this kind of player is when you've got like top two or a set on a board where it's unlikely to have hit him. On this board, he's likely to have a piece already. I think in this situation if we had QsTs, I might not mind giving a guy with a history of blowing up a free look at the turn.
gvl
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Friday, August 22nd, 2008, 1:03 AM) *
I think I just bet and hope he already has a piece and starts moving his chips into the pot. A queen or (non spade) ten on the turn would make you feel like an idiot if he starts betting a lot.

I think a better time to give a free card against this kind of player is when you've got like top two or a set on a board where it's unlikely to have hit him. On this board, he's likely to have a piece already. I think in this situation if we had QsTs, I might not mind giving a guy with a history of blowing up a free look at the turn.


I agree. Checking behind is probably okay, but it seems like this is the type of player who will play back at you or at least call you down with any piece of this flop. Valuetown imo.
Snamuh
Vs a mongoloid like this, not betting would be criminal. This is an action flop and he usually has some piece of it, even if it's some kind of naked gutshot or a Jx type hand.
gfdsa146
QUOTE (Snamuh @ Friday, August 22nd, 2008, 7:51 AM) *
Vs a mongoloid like this, not betting would be criminal. This is an action flop and he usually has some piece of it, even if it's some kind of naked gutshot or a Jx type hand.

wtf is this?
No_Neck
QUOTE (gfdsa146 @ Friday, August 22nd, 2008, 12:21 PM) *
wtf is this?



think cave man OOOGA BOOGA!!!


yeah you have to raise this flop, you are basically crushing any hand except a set.
NoSup4U
You're certainly strong enough to give a free card, but why would you want to? You've said villain is willing to get his money into the pot with anything. I think it would be wise to oblige him no?

Mark
copernicus
QUOTE (NoSup4U @ Friday, August 22nd, 2008, 1:45 PM) *
You're certainly strong enough to give a free card, but why would you want to? You've said villain is willing to get his money into the pot with anything. I think it would be wise to oblige him no?

Mark


In addition there are a lot of coolers on the river that he'll fold to. I would have bet pot/pot.
NoSup4U
QUOTE (copernicus @ Friday, August 22nd, 2008, 1:57 PM) *
In addition there are a lot of coolers on the river that he'll fold to. I would have bet pot/pot.


Thats a great point, there are probably a bunch of cards that will scare even the spewiest of villains and keep them from putting money in the pot, and we just don't want to give this guy any reason to keep his chips.

Mark
AcesUp46
Regarding cooler cards on this draw heavy board that might shut down the Villain, I wouldn't worry too much about. Villains like this love to use scary boards to represent something. In a vacuum, I'm indifferent towards betting or checking against this Villain. EV difference between the 2 are quite minimal imo, so either is fine.

However, given your style and stats, you have to auto c-bet this flop. You play quite a fair bit of hands for Stars $100NL FR, so you should be betting your strong hands more often. 1 or 2 other players may be observing how you play.
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