I'll put my thought process in bold. My only experience with this game is from reading DN's section in SS2 and a quick rules skimming before I signed up. Both players at the table with me seemed very passive, and I'm guessing they didn't have a lot of experience playing, either.
Table '102040042 1' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 3: Doox (2665 in chips)
Seat 4: krable (2650 in chips)
Seat 6: Bolibeli (3685 in chips)
krable: posts small blind 150
Bolibeli: posts big blind 300
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to Doox [9d Jh 3c 2c 7s] Seemed like a decent 3-handed holding, and I was on the button. Maybe I should have bet here, but I preferred to keep the pot small.
Doox: calls 300
krable: folds
Bolibeli: checks
*** FIRST DRAW ***
Bolibeli: discards 2 cards
Doox: discards 2 cards [9d Jh] Should I have kept the 9? If he had only drawn 1, I might have done the same to discourage a bet. While passive, this guy seemed to sometimes bet when he was first to act, especially on the 2nd draw when he saw that I had drawn more cards than he did on the first draw.
Dealt to Doox [3c 2c 7s] [Js 3h]
Bolibeli: checks
Doox: checks
*** SECOND DRAW ***
Bolibeli: discards 2 cards
Doox: discards 2 cards [Js 3c]
Dealt to Doox [2c 7s 3h] [8h Ts]
Bolibeli: checks
Doox: bets 600 Not a great holding, but surely I should bet this while he's still drawing 2, right? I figured the higher betting amount would also discourage a call, as the pot was smaller. Plus, I wanted to see where I was at.
Bolibeli: calls 600
*** THIRD DRAW ***
Bolibeli: discards 1 card
Doox: stands pat on [2c 7s 3h 8h Ts]
My thinking here was to again, discourage a bet since this would seem like I was surely going to bet this round. As he had been passive yet still called last round, I figured he had to have had a good drawing hand. My plan was to check after he checked. If he bet, I was easily folding. If he checked, I didn't see much value in betting, as I was only going to get called by a better hand, like a 9-high. I didn't think he was capable of a check-raise, so that didn't factor.
Bolibeli: checks
Doox: checks
Results are in the spoiler:
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bolibeli: shows [4h 6h 2s Kc 7c] (Lo: K,7,6,4,2)
Doox: shows [8h 3h Ts 2c 7s] (Lo: T,8,7,3,2)
Doox collected 1950 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1950 | Rake 0
Seat 3: Doox (button) showed [8h 3h Ts 2c 7s] and won (1950) with Lo: T,8,7,3,2
Seat 4: krable (small blind) folded before the Draw
Seat 6: Bolibeli (big blind) showed [4h 6h 2s Kc 7c] and lost with Lo: K,7,6,4,2
Was my reasoning sound? I had a tougher time trying to type out my thought process than I thought I would, due to my lack of any playing experience. It just "seemed" like the right play at the time. Be gentle.
Full Version: How Did I Play This Hand? Was My Reasoning Sound?
alright, I haven't played a single hand of this game but you keep talking about your reasoning, and I think it's flawed.
Playing passive against passive players is the main flaw. They've been passive, you have position, in any poker variant that means raise. Playing a weak game w/ weak players mean you're all sitting around waiting for monsters. That's cards, not poker. You missed a chance to take the down pre draw, and again after the first draw where in both spots you were shown weakness.
Raise or just call through I'd bet that first draw. Do you get to see how many he draws before you draw? If so, definitely draw one then bet again.
If at that point he's shown resistance there THEN keep the pot small.
At the beginning of the hand worry about taking down the blinds, once you get played back at then play for pot control. It's not something you should start off a hand thinking.
Again, no idea how to play this game other than a guess based on HH, but that's what I'm thinking via 'poker reasoning'.
Playing passive against passive players is the main flaw. They've been passive, you have position, in any poker variant that means raise. Playing a weak game w/ weak players mean you're all sitting around waiting for monsters. That's cards, not poker. You missed a chance to take the down pre draw, and again after the first draw where in both spots you were shown weakness.
Raise or just call through I'd bet that first draw. Do you get to see how many he draws before you draw? If so, definitely draw one then bet again.
If at that point he's shown resistance there THEN keep the pot small.
At the beginning of the hand worry about taking down the blinds, once you get played back at then play for pot control. It's not something you should start off a hand thinking.
Again, no idea how to play this game other than a guess based on HH, but that's what I'm thinking via 'poker reasoning'.
predraw - raise or reraise almost every hand you are going to play. you have 237. this is the best of the two best 2 card draws you can have (234 ties with it). a lot of low limit players are very nitty and play more or less correctly so these raises are the only edge you are going to get over them. i know it sounds crazy but this game is actually much juicier at the higher limits.
always discard a nine on the first draw.
on the first draw your check might be good. i will bet here if the person will not draw two on the second draw for the big bet and they don't know enough to automatically checkraise me when they improve to a one card draw (read - everybody). however, the by the book standard thing to do is check when you've drawn the same number and haven't improved and bet when you are a card ahead.
on the second draw - 2378t you are a favorite over any one card draw (any jack is, with two players any nine is). bet. then if he draws you stand pat, and if he stands pat you break the ten. get used to this pattern in position. this is what you did. you played this part well.
always discard a nine on the first draw.
on the first draw your check might be good. i will bet here if the person will not draw two on the second draw for the big bet and they don't know enough to automatically checkraise me when they improve to a one card draw (read - everybody). however, the by the book standard thing to do is check when you've drawn the same number and haven't improved and bet when you are a card ahead.
on the second draw - 2378t you are a favorite over any one card draw (any jack is, with two players any nine is). bet. then if he draws you stand pat, and if he stands pat you break the ten. get used to this pattern in position. this is what you did. you played this part well.
QUOTE (antistuff @ Thursday, August 14th, 2008, 7:29 AM) 
predraw - raise or reraise almost every hand you are going to play. you have 237. this is the best of the two best 2 card draws you can have (234 ties with it). a lot of low limit players are very nitty and play more or less correctly so these raises are the only edge you are going to get over them. i know it sounds crazy but this game is actually much juicier at the higher limits.
always discard a nine on the first draw.
on the first draw your check might be good. i will bet here if the person will not draw two on the second draw for the big bet and they don't know enough to automatically checkraise me when they improve to a one card draw (read - everybody). however, the by the book standard thing to do is check when you've drawn the same number and haven't improved and bet when you are a card ahead.
on the second draw - 2378t you are a favorite over any one card draw (any jack is, with two players any nine is). bet. then if he draws you stand pat, and if he stands pat you break the ten. get used to this pattern in position. this is what you did. you played this part well.
always discard a nine on the first draw.
on the first draw your check might be good. i will bet here if the person will not draw two on the second draw for the big bet and they don't know enough to automatically checkraise me when they improve to a one card draw (read - everybody). however, the by the book standard thing to do is check when you've drawn the same number and haven't improved and bet when you are a card ahead.
on the second draw - 2378t you are a favorite over any one card draw (any jack is, with two players any nine is). bet. then if he draws you stand pat, and if he stands pat you break the ten. get used to this pattern in position. this is what you did. you played this part well.
Much obliged for the replies, guys. One of my biggest issues was trying to estimate the relative strength of both pre-draw and first draw holdings. I'm guessing you would recommend raising that hand pre-draw, even at a full table. Is there an example of a predraw hand that you would raise 3-handed, yet not raise at a 6-handed table?
QUOTE (doox @ Thursday, August 14th, 2008, 12:38 PM)
Much obliged for the replies, guys. One of my biggest issues was trying to estimate the relative strength of both pre-draw and first draw holdings. I'm guessing you would recommend raising that hand pre-draw, even at a full table. Is there an example of a predraw hand that you would raise 3-handed, yet not raise at a 6-handed table?
no. i am raising any hand that i am playing predraw no matter how many people are at the table.
the chapter in ss2 is really helpful regarding what to play pre draw how. '
one thing that you want to do that your opponents probably wont is to raise 23, 24, 25, and 27 from the button when its folded to you.
you can also play those hands from the big blind for a raise in multiway pots.
Much obliged. Up to this point, I've only been playing 3 card hands or better pre-draw, with exception to being in the BB or on the button in an unraised pot.
I realize I have a ton to learn in this game, and that's making it a lot of fun for me. Although I'm no expert, obviously, it's amazing to me how incredibly horrible other players are in this game at the lower limit sng's. One guy was raising from the SB, then drawing 4 cards. He also liked to stand pat after the first draw with a pair of queens
I should probably reread that chapter. I haven't looked at in in almost a year, as I never had the chance to play.
I realize I have a ton to learn in this game, and that's making it a lot of fun for me. Although I'm no expert, obviously, it's amazing to me how incredibly horrible other players are in this game at the lower limit sng's. One guy was raising from the SB, then drawing 4 cards. He also liked to stand pat after the first draw with a pair of queens
I should probably reread that chapter. I haven't looked at in in almost a year, as I never had the chance to play.
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