bonds yes

Palmiero yes

sosa yes

mcgwire yes

the needle... yes

There should be a standard for closers, a la 500 homeruns and 300 victories.

Something like 400 saves.

1 Trevor Hoffman 575
2 Mariano Rivera 507
3 Lee Smith 478
4 John Franco 424
5 Dennis Eckersley 390
6 Billy Wagner 385
7 Jeff Reardon 367
8 Troy Percival 358
9 Randy Myers 347

In a game filled with overrated statistics, I think the save is the most overrated one. I think closers should be judged on other statistical measures besides saves.

Agree with that, but like what?



To get to 400 saves would require an average of 33+ saves for 12 years, (at least that's one way). Seems pretty Hall of Famish to me.

Will Clark should be in, but he will never get enough votes.

I've got a good one, Jeff Kent. Does he deserve to get in?

Will Clark should be in, but he will never get enough votes.

You're thinking of the 'Hicks of Fame.'

Today was really all about 1 person...Ricky baby!! I'll be at the A's/Toronto game this coming Saturday for the A's tribute to Ricky...can't wait!

I think rickey is like a super hall of famer, like the top of the top, in the all time outfield maybe even.

I think rickey is like a super hall of famer, like the top of the top, in the all time outfield maybe even.

If you were making an all time team in a practical way, you would almost have to include Rickey. He is the prototype for a leadoff hitter. High OBP, best base runner of all time, even occasional power for fun.

The only way I would leave him off is if I decided to make Cobb the leadoff hitter instead. But I dont know what Ty's stance was on referring to himself in the third person. Crucial info.

Rickey gets underestimated because he was such a clown and because he hung on way way too long. Makes people forget what a special player he was.

Oh, and Will Clark was my favorite player when I was little (I did not know he was kind of a prick at the time) but NO WAY he deserves to be in the HoF. no way.

"I’m about to give you one of my all-time favorite statistics: Rickey Henderson walked 796 times in his career LEADING OFF AN INNING. Think about this again. There would be nothing, absolutely nothing, a pitcher would want to avoid more than walking Rickey Henderson to lead off an inning. And yet he walked SEVEN HUNDRED NINETY SIX times to lead off an inning.
He walked more times just leading off in an inning than Lou Brock, Roberto Clemente, Luis Aparicio, Ernie Banks, Kirby Puckett, Ryne Sandberg and more than 50 other Hall of Famers walked in their entire careers...I simply cannot imagine a baseball statistic more staggering."[94]

Oh, and Will Clark was my favorite player when I was little (I did not know he was kind of a prick at the time) but NO WAY he deserves to be in the HoF. no way.

"And let me close my speech with one final thought -- Hey, Rickey, you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind. Hey, Rickey. Hey, Rickey!"
http://www.sportspickle.com/pictures

meh, you guys are right. pretty good stats tho.

lifetime 303 avg, 2100+ hits, 282 homeruns, lifetime 880 ops, 1100+ rbis, lifetime 440 doubles, plus that epic grand slam in game 1 of the 1989 NLCS @ the cubs. I am biased though because he is my favorite Giant ever. I grew up worshiping the guy.

Sportsmack, Rickey was and still IS the man. his speech had me cracking up.

yeah, I'm a big Mark Grace guy too. He has the most hits ( and I think doubles) of the 90's, but it doesn't mean I think he's an HOFer.

And rickey is god. That speech was truly HOF.

Any love out there for Bert Blyleven?

How about Roberto Alomar?

ANDRE GODSON!!!!!


My favorite all time player.. the way he came to the cubs was so epic... he was the MAN of those teams. I never thought he'd make the hall of fame, because his stats just aren't quite there (his OBP is particularly poor), and since he'd missed getting in so many times, I didn't see that he'd ever get it.....

(I believe he spent some time in Montreal too, right?)

if Montreal was still a franchise, he might have gone into the hall as an expo. His best all around years were in Montreal.

So many great players spent their very early years in Montreal. I always liked going to games there. Not too many stadiums sell crepes.

[blyleven] Comes up just five votes short (got 400, need 405). Has two more chances.


[alomar] Eight votes short on first try.

So they'll both definitely get in next year.


P.S. Andre Dawson is as much a Red Sock as he is a Marlin, and I honestly just had to look him up to make sure I didn't invent the fact that he was on the Sox for a season+ (I didn't). LOL @ Marlins great. He literally had less than 300 at bats as a Marlin.

He was a bench coach there for a while, I'm pretty sure.

Seriously, Marlins front office people, you generally do a great job of putting low cost-high reward teams on the field. You don't need to pretend Andre Dawson was a Marlins great.

if you''re the best player ever at your position, you should be in the hall.

Roberto Alomar not getting in is a pure joke.

That's my "Ray Guy should be in the hall of fame" argument.

McGwire admits steroid use.

Shocking, I know.

He said he was on them off and on for nearly a decade, including his 70 HR year.

I wonder if this has anything to do with his lackluster hall of fame voting. I also wonder if voters will be more lenient to those that admit it.

...If I was a voter I still wouldn't ever vote for him...

What rule did he break? Were Steroids and HGH against the rules back then? I honestly don't know. Everyone calls him a "cheater" but were his actions actually cheating?

"The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players or personnel is strictly prohibited ... This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs."

That's the old rule. So unless they were getting and using their steroids legally, it was against the rules.

I think what a lot of people are upset about is that MLB knew this was going on and did nothing to discourage it because they never tested for it.

I think what a lot of people are upset about is that MLB knew this was going on and did nothing to discourage it because they never tested for it.

Well let's use current HOF inductions as a gold standard. Were there any players who used illegal drugs in the HOF? Well 1919-1933 was the prohibition, at which point alchohol was illegal. In 1919 a young man by the name of Babe Ruth was sold to the New York Yankees. Babe Ruth very publically at times was disobeying this current illegal drug law.

I by no means want to say McGwire is anywhere close to Ruth on talent level or leaving his mark on the record books, however by letter of the rules "This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs."

The fact that MM can say that the roids did'nt give him an edge is so incrediblly insulting. it made me wonder why he even did this interview in the first place? If he wasn't ready to come clean then why bother? I'm sorry, but you will have a tough time convincing me that he actually believes this. He slugged 750 in 98... that does not happen.

If he's going to continue to lie, i'm going to continue calling him an a-hole

What rule did he break? Were Steroids and HGH against the rules back then? I honestly don't know. Everyone calls him a "cheater" but were his actions actually cheating?

Regardless if the MLB allowed it, last time I checked steroids were against the law unless used for medical reasons.

I agree that MLB is corrupt and are responsible for this, but I can't let McGuire off the hook. When I first started watching baseball I was a huge fan of McGuire and Canseco (Oak fan obv), and now I have a deep hatred for them. Giambi and Tejada also.

There is scientific evidence that I won't look up and find links to, but I know it is out there that shows that steroids do without a doubt help players hit home runs. McGuire is either stupid not to believe that steroids helped him hit home runs, or he thinks the public is stupid enough to believe him.

I think it sucks that a team hired him.

The steroid problem is not close to being over. I still think players take stuff that are undetectable. I also think athletes in other sports are still doing this as well. Last year Manny got caught, also the whole ARod stuff with him saying he did not take steroids and he got caught in a lie. All of major league baseball is shady in my opinion, I can't trust anyone with all these players lying out of their teeth.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writ....html?eref=sihp

There's another thing, something you don't hear people talk about much. In fact, my old friend Buck O'Neil was about the only person I ever heard talk openly about this. Buck would get infuriated because people constantly talked about the "benefits" of using steroids to the exclusion of almost everything else. He'd say something like: "Well, people talk all the time about how they will help you hit the ball farther and pitch the ball faster. Why don't they talk instead about how you might die young? Why don't they talk about how you might not be able to have children? Why are they always telling children: 'Use this and it will make you a great baseball player... but you shouldn't use it?'"

His point was, yes, that we in the media -- especially some of the angriest anti-steroid crusaders -- GLORIFY steroids. We talk about the amazing feats of strength possible with steroids. We talk about how steroids can turn a mere mortal into a legend. We talk about how despite all the rewards -- and those rewards may include fame and riches beyond your wildest dreams -- you shouldn't do it because, you know, it's wrong and cheating and all that. This isn't exactly an overpowering message to the youth of America, is it? McGwire's message was: "Hey, it's a dead end and it doesn't even help you that much." And people skewer him for it?

Being a bit of a Devil's Advocate here...

...why are steroids such an issue to you? Why is this such a betrayal to you? Ultimately they are only hurting themselves. Yeah, "Bad message to kids.. blah... blah... blah..." but you "hate" them for their performance enhancing drug usage? They are going to extreme measures to be the best athlete they can be - to the point of knowingly exposing themselves to proven risks of life shortening diseases. It seems like people are getting twisted up partly because the media are making a frenzy out of it. The same media who ignored the story when it was actually happening.

First off they were able to make millions upon millions that they do not have to give back because they cheated. 2nd off they are lying. McGwire is lying (Canseco said he would go up against a lie detector at any time). Pretty much all the high profile guys have lied. They are supposed to be role models to kids and they lie in front of the public on a daily basis.

2nd off, you don't feel betrayed by the McGwire Sosa year that put baseball back on the map? Yeah that whole thing was a farce. I consider that year a fantasy tale, could be written as a book, but to me all of that should be erased from MLB history.

Barry Bonds' records... all a lie.

In the interest of consistency, do you also believe anyone who used amphetamines back in the 60s and 70s should be taken out of the record books and be out of the HOF as well?

If there is concrete evidence of anyone using performance enhancing drugs they should be left out.

You realize who that means you're kicking out, right? Mickey Mantle, willie mays, all the guys of that era were popping greenies like m&m's.