It was the day I'd finally had it, laughed to myself and said, this has to be some kind of stupid joke. The Leafs had already made a slew of bad signings, trades, and draft picks, but this was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. The Leafs were in a very powerful position in goal for the future and the current team was barely a playoff hopeful when they decided to Trade Tukka Rask, the future Dominik Hasek to the Boston Bruins in return for... get this people... no joke... Andrew Raycroft!

Years have gone by now and Rask has already beat the Leafs once (get used to it) and Raycroft is now long gone. Finally, they did what they should have done that season and signed free agent Curtis Joseph to the team as a temporary solution without giving up their powerful prospect duo in net. They could have kept them both, not paid Raycroft a bunch of money for nothing, and then gone into this season with Rask as a back up goalie or even in the AHL. Or, moving him or Pogge to another team for help on defense or a prospect at center.

I'm hoping to return as a fan is I see them dedicate themselves to a long term plan and I thought Fletcher did an excellent job at the draft moving up to #5. Let this team get young, go through growing pains and STOP putting band aids on the development of the franchise by signing 30 something players to make them competitive.

The Leafs are actually the one franchise where it would be EASIEST to build a dynasty because even if the team loses every game the seats would be filled. Sure people would complain, but they would show up and they would wait.

wow, really, that was what did it for you?
Your roughly my age (mid 30's), we both grew up in Toronto in the 80's, and it took until then? I jumped off long before you.

I was a sad kid when they moved out Sittler/McDonald and I got more pissed when they traded a first rounder to get....Tom Kurvers. Giving up S.Niedermayer and nearly blowing ELindros. Or as I like to call him, Forsberg-Ricci-Hextall-Dushesne-2Firsts.
And then the pick that would become Luongo was sent to reclaim the rights to a 60year old Wendel....and i was done. And countless other moves too many to mention, not nearly as dramatic maybe, but all the same type.
Tukka Rask never made it on my radar.

I'd love to get back on board, but i just see nothing. I'd accept a 5year rebuild in a heartbeat, but see no signs of greatness, ever, with these guys.

Sorry Serge, I know this pisses you off, but its such a downer being a huge hockey fan in this great hockey market, with this sorry excuse for an franchise over the last 20+ years.

on montreal radio the other day they were talking about the leafs and they said that the fans in Toronto are smart enough to realize that Sundin probably won't sign in Toronto because they know their team isn't going to be any good for the next couple years. It made me think about serge and I lol'd.

For me it was the Kordic <-> Courtnall trade

We are very happy to lose you as a fan. Now if the other so called fans left , then maybe we can start winning again. As dumb as it sounds, the reason the Leafs struggle is because of so called fans like you guys and the media. Every move is blown out of proportion to a point that it becomes a distraction.

Tukko Rask is nowhere close to being an NHL goalie, and probably will never be.

Of course. It has NOTHING to do with the team that's put on the ice.

N0, serge, the reason the team struggles is because of fans like YOU. If the fanbase in toronto would stop throwing their money at a team that is simply horrible, then management would have long ago been forced to embark on a serious mission to improve and CONTINUE to improve this team. Simple comparison? The Toronto Raptors. When the team's poor performance started to affect the box office, the board stepped up, brought in an 'A' calibre GM, and proceeded to work at full speed towards a mandate of improving the team both in the short term and the long run. When the leafs were being run into the ground in the 70's and 80's by Harold Ballard, the arena was still full, and they were still on TV every saturday night. Now, they have been horrible since 2003, and fans still blindly support the team.
If anything, serge, you should wake up every morning and THANK the media. If the media hadn't called a spade a spade and put the spotlight on just how horribly this team was being run, you wouldn't have at least the semblance now of moving in a positive direction. If every day's papers for the past four years had been full of 'Oh my goodness the leafs are sooooooo talented, and aren't we lucky to have Andrew Raycroft and Kyle Wellwood playing here', then there would be no Cliff Fletcher, no gutting of the team to move ahead, no Luke Schenn, and no hope.
Here's a poker analogy for you serge...... if YOU were the poker media, and the leafs were Absolute Poker.... people would still be getting cheated in high stakes games. Because someone, SOMEWHERE has to blow the whistle on stupidity. So blame the media if you like.....

your comments are always appreciated and respected..However when I say the media and the so called bandwagons fans affect the team , I will give you a few examples.

Larry Murphy who was an All Star defenseman was run out of town because of a couple of overblown plays..He went onto win 2 Stanley Cups.

Andrew Raycroft...Andrew Raycroft was sold as the next Vezina candidate when he came in. He buckled under the pressure and couldnt survive in this town. I hope he does well in Colorado.

Bryan McCabe..This is the perfect example of how the media/fans can affect a players perceived value and performance. Bryan McCabe was and continues to be a very good defenceman in this league. Once again a few overblown plays that get front page coverage distorts the value of McCabe to the Leafs to the point of him being branded one of the worst players in the NHL. This is ludicrous, ok maybe his salary is a little overpriced, but that was the market when he was signed. The casual Leafs fan(ie Daniel) doesnt watch 60 minutes of the Leafs night in and night out. They see the cover of the Sun or a highlight on TSN of McCabe having a bad night and BOOM instant credibility to the media.

Kyle Wellwood...Another player who just couldnt handle the spotlight and the constant intrusion of the spotlight.

Jason Blake......Before he even stepped on the ice he was vilified for signing a huge contract at his age. He went onto have a career year in assists while going through a very scary and life threatening disease. The media concentrated on this 15 goals he scored, nothing else.

The Leafs success(yes off the ice) is also their downfall. It takes a special kind of player to play in this city. Some players like Gilmour,Clark,Sundin thrive on it...Some players just cant handle 20 reporters in their face for a Monday afternoon practice.

The Harold Ballard era was a right off in the 80s that took a long time to fix. We fixed it and had very competitive teams for the most part of the 90s. I believe the Leafs were one of the top teams in the NHL for a good stretch, yes we didnt win a CUP , but so didnt a lot of other teams. The new NHL handcuffed the Leafs by them having to change their philosophy. No longer could we go and get free agents to compete, we have changed the mentality and we will be back

GO LEAFS GO

Did you actually read my post? Wow......... there is the asstrich, with full plumage...

the media had next to nothing to do with this. The fans and their ignorance ran him out of town in my mind.

oh, and i forgot to add the Leafs fans' are also one of the biggest reasons why I no longer wanted to be known as one. I didn't want to give the impression I neither cared about hockey (which some fans really dont, they are just Leafs fans), or that I thought the GM should trade Belak+Ondurs+1st rounder for Lecavalier. I dont know whats worse, the suits who dont care at the game, or the idiots who think they know hockey cause they watch Leafs games at the bar.

not aimed you Serge, I always respect your loyalty, though it does appear a little blind at times. Your the guy in Fever Pitch, the Red Sox movie. I like that kind of passion for home team and history, wish i still had it.

There are varying kind of Leafs fans..

There are guys like me who are loyal to the end and we will support them all the time.

There are fans that are only fans when they win, and love to bitch and complain about everything the Leafs do..ie Daniel, Gruven

Then there are stupid fans who think that the Leafs suck because they didnt trade Belak for Lecavalier.

I am proud to be a Leafs fan. I will never give up on them EVER...

Thanks

I think this is a faulty statement.

I'm confident that both of the individuals you mentioned would happily be fans if the Leafs were losing, as part of a rebuilding plan, rather than losing with no foresight, aside from striving for mediocrity.

Therefore, they are not only fans when they win.

Its a 100% accurate..

The whole rebuilding bullshit is so overrated...Do you think teams like Chicago and LA will ever compete..NO , they can rebuild forever..

Then there are the Penguins..The history of the franchise looks like this..

Last place for 7 years, compete for a CUP..Lose on purpose to get top draft picks..

REPEAT..

BLAH BLAH FRICKING BLAH>

I would certainly take that over 9th or 10th every single year.

The Pens case is a bit extreme, because it was ownership and mismanagement that caused them to lose for as long as they did. A normal rebuilding should take much shorter now. Look at the Flyers of the last two seasons, for example.

The Hawks are a case of poor ownership as well, but it won't take them long at all to compete deep into the playoffs again. This year, possibly next.

The Leafs, unfortunately, are no where near where the Hawks are, or the Kings, for that matter. And they only have a couple of semi decent prospects in the ranks.

The leafs story is overblown yet again. In the 90s we were a top team for most of the decade. The only reason we have struggled the last few years is the whole CBA. The Leafs werent ready for the new rules, or maybe they underestimated the impact of the salary cap. It has taken a few years to adjust, but we are on the right track.

Buffalo, Ottawa and Pittsburgh would of been bankrupt for a variety of reasons before the NHL stepped in to change the rules in their favour. Every change that the NHL has implemented has been in effect been against the Leafs. Its almost like Bettman says the Leafs make money, lets think of ways so they cant compete with the other small market teams. Lets take away ALL their advantages..

**** you Bettman

So now that the playing field is level, they can't compete?

I think you're fighting the wrong side of your argument.

it wasnt ever level..The rules were changed instantly with no warning...It takes a while to recuperate from the effects of it...

In the next 30 years the leafs will win more cups than the Penguins,Hawks and Kings put together.

First off the Pens were bad for 5 years (4 seasons, not 7) and during that time they didn't "tank" anything. They rebuilt. Not only were they lucky to get the players but there's no guarantees that their players would be as dominant as they are in the NHL. I know it sounds crazy but sometimes you have to blow up some old decrepit buildings before putting up your 5 star high rise.

Bettman's job to make sure the entire league is as healthy as possible. What has been done to the leafs that hasn't also happened to the Habs and how could they possibly win the Eastern Conference without those "advantages"?



Hahahahahaha...thanks I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

I expect Dale to ask for a bet on this one.

But maybe something is wrong with the Leafs and not the new NHL. Other teams made the transition, but why can't the leafs. You said something about the new nhl taking away their ability to sign free agents? Why? The Wings were pegged as a team who bought their cup wins but then the new nhl came around and the team hasn't missed a beat yet they still sign big name free agents and will continue to make a run for a cup for years to come. So I don't know if that is a valid excuse for the Leafs.

I like the Leafs, I watch their games when I can on Saturday nights, and I always looked forward to Leafs/Wings games back in the day and made sure to get tickets. But I think there is a definite flaw in the management of that team that you just don't see or choose to ignore. It is a huge market, it is an original six team, and if they had a clue, they could really get some good teams together but it seems they don't have the right people in place to make that happen.

FYP

I thinks it's amusing that the Leafs have to watch Detroit raise their banner in October

I never knew, though I cant say I'm suprised. Is there anything original coming out of Hollywood anymore? Its all a copy of a show/movie from overseas.
We were talking about In Treatment on the fchl board, the show on HBO. Meant to mention then the concept originated from a show in Israel.

imdb.com says Colin Firth was in it....must be good!

Nick Hornby....... also wrote 'High Fidelity' and the book I'm reading right now, 'Songbook'. Brilliant....

yep, also read another of his book of his called 'How to be good' a while back, it was very good. Fever Pitch is truely awesome though, especially as an Arsenal fan.

A true fan is one who is willing to commit to a rebuilding process when it's necessary. It's been necessary in Toronto for a very long time but instead they strive for mediocrity and that I hate and want no part of. I would be happy to support, no, in fact, would love to support the team if I saw 2-3 young players that can be the core of the franchise for years to come. Tlustly doesn't cut it for me. Give me Kane, Toewes, Stamkos... something to be excited about!

Fletcher did great to move up to #5. What I'd like to see if a few big trades that free us up from some big contracts and also move our biggest commodity right now in Kaberle for some young talent AND 1st round picks. I'd like to see no more than 3 players on the whole team over 30 and none of them signed past next season. I'd like to see a group of young players grow together and build a dynasty and believe that Toronto is the EASIEST city to do that in.

I'd like to see the team WAIT for once before signing aging veterans to plug holes. Let the young guys build a solid team together and add the extra pieces of the puzzle when you have 4 great young forwards, 3 great young d men, and a star goalie. At that point I add a couple veteran forwards and a couple d men, with a proven back up in net. Now you have a team that can win a cup year after year. It's so freaking easy, it really is.

You make it seem easy but its not..In the age of salary caps, no movement clauses and a balanced NHL its very difficult...As a poker player you should know that as a professional you cant go out there and just lose on purpose. What are the Leafs players supposed to do , just lose every game to assure them a shot at Tavares??It aint gonna happen..I believe they drafted a player in Luke Schenn that will be a cornerstone of the franchise for many years..They have a very good goalie in Toskala and a veteran backup Joseph that will play maybe 10-15 games. The defence is pretty solid..Kaberle is an allstar and they do have some young guys in Stralman,White and Carlo that will develop into solid players..McCabe and Kubina are still assets to this team..I am confident to say we are ok on defence.

On offense there are a lot of question marks..Tlusty may be a star..Steen,Stajan,Pony and Antropov are a good solid core with lots of upside..Antropov when healthy is a 30 goal guy. We dont have an Ovechkin,Crosby,Toews type of a forward. But I think we arent in that bad shape as people think.

I am confident this team will be back

there are franchises who simply don't sign players to no trade clauses, you know. seems like the wild are doing okay with that policy so far.

The Wild are an exception. Dont think they will sign Gaborik next year under those circumstances.

it won't be a problem if they have the talent in place to make him want to stay. the wild will pay him what he deserves, guaranteed... just a matter of whether he feels he's got the linemates he wants. it was pretty sickening that hossa signed in detroit for one year when the wild were most likely offering more money, longer term...

FWIW I have Gaborik on the Leafs roster in 2009...

it'll be interesting to see if he can stay healthy next year to attract any attention at the deadline. that seems like a huge "if" with that guy...

but back to the leafs... you sir need to just keep your head down and keep buying tickets/memorabelia to show them that you're dedicated and ready to win!

I am dedicated more than anyone you can meet

lol

Its easy to be fan of the Detroit Red wings..Try to step in my shoes for a few years when everyone is badmouthing the team.

I am proud to be A leafs fan.

Ignorance is bliss.

I "used" to be a fan of the Detroit Lions. A team extremely similar to the Leafs. A team with poor management. A team that sells out all their games yet puts out a poor product thus making the management lazy because they are getting money. A team that makes poor personnel decisions, always tries to plug holes instead of fixing them, brings in lackluster talent and doesn't have the means to help players improve. Loved the Lions, lived the Lions. But then 3 years ago after yet another disappointing season I gave up on the Lions. Why waste my time and energy rooting for an organization that doesn't care to get better? Why put money in the pockets of an organization that clearly doesn't care? Fine, I am a poor fan. Better to be a poor fan than a blind follower.

I however am also and still am a fan of the Tigers. A team there for a while was one of the worst teams in all of sports and not just baseball but the owner was clearly making strives to better the team and eventually did and now have a decent team that should compete for years to come. They gave me reasons to stick it out. Wings did the same back in the early 80's. They sucked. Illitch used to actually call our house trying to sell tickets. They gave cars away to get people to come watch this pitiful team but the owner showed he was trying to get it together and look at it now.

From what I read, hear, see, the Leafs don't look to be making those moves that tells me they are trying to right the ship. Which is sad, because the Leafs are hockey.

So yes, it is easy to be a fan of the Wings. It's easy because the organization does everything it can to put out a good product. Can you say that about the Leafs. Well sure you can but you are pretty much the only one because, and I try not to offend, you are a blind follower.

A very good post. I respect all your posts and views and this is true of this.

However the notion the Leafs management doesnt care is the biggest fallacy in all of sports. They have been trying to win and have WON before the lockout. As a matter of fact the year of the lockout they were one of the favourites to win the cup. Then armageddon came and screwed us up. It took a long time to fix the problems. We are trying.

1967.00

what no golf joke?

http://golf.about.com/cs/historyofgolf/p/timeline1967.htm



40 years later.

Money Leaders:
PGA: Tiger Woods, $10,867,052
LPGA: Lorena Ochoa, $4,364,994.00

I think the leafs are slowly, surely trying to move in the right direction. their signings sucked, but that's not a bad thing if there's a chance the team finishes near to last and dings the lottery.

if I were a leafs fan, I'd be rooting for Sundin to retire.

I always liked you and your comments, you are one of the more normal people on here.

However I will RESPECTFULLY disagree. Their signings were solid. A good backup goalie in Joseph, a solid #5 dman in Finger and a potential 25-30 goal scorer in Hagman.

I also dont like the notion that is constantly brought up that they need to lose to get a lottery pick. The mentality is wrong, they are professionals that will play to win.

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...p;f=43&id=5

TROLLING

Apparently when its done to me its ok.

By the way I love the post and find it very funny.

there's a little brown on your nose.

I could see it going either way. I don't like the deals either of those guys got, but they might be worth the cash.

do you think schenn's going to make the roster next season?

DON'T YOU HAVE A SLURPEE MACHINE TO CLEAN?

No just the truth.

For example.

I hate your comments
your posts are ridicolous
and your views suck ass..

However you are a good guy and have nothing against you personally.

It will be interesting to see on Schenn. I have heard he may be NHL ready. It all depends on what we do with McCabe and Kubina. If they are both Leafs by opening night, I dont see Schenn on the roster. If they are both moved then possibly.

I really like this kid. Pronger and Phaneuf and Schenn...