Especially since we're the only ones that can actually request it.

Let's be more specific though...are we talking about assisted suicide? Not things like pulling the plug on vegetables?

I see Dr. K all the time. Saw him again last Thursday night at the Coney Island. Sits in the same seat everytime. He is a very nice guy and always pleasant. The city wasn't the same while he was in prison. Now he is running for Congress in our district but sadly he is running against the candidate my wife is working for. Plus, I don't think he would be a good congressman.

That's all I got I guess. I never had an issue with what he was doing when he was doing it. It's not like these people were victims, they were going through horrible things and needed a way out and he was there. I understand the legality behind not wanting to allow it but I guess I don't get the personal reasons for not wanting it. If I am in pain and will live the rest of my life in pain then I would like that option if I can't do it myself. I would never ask a family member do it.

bunch of god damn sinners in here. if god wants you to be in cripplingly severe pain, he's got a damn good reason for it. probably impure thoughts.

I would tend to believe that this is not true, I would lean toward thinking that God would provide another way out, especially if you asked him for one.

I thought Dr. K was in prison.
I must have thought wrong.

He got out recently. I see him almost daily.

Come on, man, you know this isn't true. Many (if not most) prayers aren't answered how we want them to be.

I am torn on this one on a personal level but this is pretty black and white biblically. Don't kill. Now, if you killed yourself... you killed. What if that last day of suffering was the last step you needed to prepare your heart and soul for heaven? What if don't kill actually means don't kill? That could be an issue at judgement.

I thought Dr. K was in prison.
I must have thought wrong.

I'm all for assisted suicide. Also for the death penalty. I'm sure there's a few innocent people in prison... I'm willing to write them off as casualties of war. Kill every single person in prison that is there for a violent crime. Do it now. Do it cheap.

Leave the horses alone.

Do we really want the government in the business of sanctioning the value of a person's life.
What about allowing a person to die if they are just depressed, severely?

Hipocratic oath: I will do no harm; guess we can cut that out.

We hold life to sacred in America to make this public policy.

What about pressures to get ahold of your heart because a rich guy needs it in the next room over. You telling me doctors are trustworthy enough not to be tempted to 'help you depart' when they find your insurance won't cover the sugery you need to live?

It's not perfect, but I'd rather not open that Pandora's box.

Biblically I am like braveheart...not locked on any answer individually

I assume you are against the death penalty then?

I had a professor in college who was pretty well versed on biblical history (I had him for some other kind of history) and he made the assertion that the actual translation of the commandment "thou shall not kill" as we know it today is actually "thou shall not murder", which has different implications, i.e. justifiable killings are ok. this includes self defense, fighting in wars, and other such "ok" killings. seems to me that suicides, in the most dire of circumstances, could fall under this category.

I don't know how I personally feel about it because even though BG up there says it in a wacky CONSERVATIVE sort of way, he has a good point that it does open up a lot of doors that could be dangerous. I don't know though, never really thought about it in depth.
also, shouldn't it actually be "thou shall not kill... you know, unless I tell you to"?

fyp
Get your labels right noob ShakeZuma wouldn't have made this mistake

Do we really want the government in the business of sanctioning the value of a person's life.

What about allowing a person to die if they are just depressed, severely?

Hipocratic oath: I will do no harm; guess we can cut that out.

I agree with this. It's a tricky subject.
Which is doing more harm: Keeping a person barely alive against his will in constant excruciating pain or allowing them to end his life peacefully on his own terms?

Here is the thing, and this is from a purely christian standpoint. My life is not supposed to be on my terms. If I ain't dead yet, I am not supposed to be. My life still has a reason, whatever it is.

I have attended a deathbed ceremony- I say that because I don't know what else to call it. We sat there and watched this lady we knew for years, pass on. She had been riddled with cancer for years. We sang songs, took turns talking to her, stayed with her as she passed on. I learned alot those days. Probably more than if I had just volunteered to pull a plug. I know for me, that experience was invaluable in it's own way.

That's the thing- what is Gods plan? Oftentimes, we don't know. We just have to go with it. Painful, joyful, dark, come what may. I don't see anything in the New Testament that would point to anything else. That being said, no possible way I could hold everyone to this standard, how you want to go out is up to you.

Once there was a devout religoius man. He went to temple, prayed, and believed in God to his very soul. In his heart he knew God would always take care of him and his family.

One beautiful Sunday it began to rain and soon the rain turned into a flood. The man stood on his front porch and prayed to God to deliver him and his family from the rising waters. As he prayed some men in a boat stopped and offered to take them to safety. The man refused and said, "God will provide for us."

Soon the water was up to the second floor and the man and his family prayed and sang to the Lord at the window. As they sung their praises to heaven another boat of rescue workers came up to the house but the man turned them away awaiting God's favor. He knew his faith would prevail.

Still the water rose and soon they were forced to perch upon their very roof, and still they did not give up their faith. Their voices were raised to heaven and they felt the light of their faith radiating from within. As the man waved away worldly men in their rescue helicopter he felt sure that God's intervention was at hand.

Now the man stood in God's presence, the memory of his crumbling home and drowning family fresh in his mind. He cursed God and demanded to know why he had been forsaken. And God said, "I sent two boats and a helicopter.".

1st
I stated many years ago that I reserve the right to contrict myself at any time regarding any subject!
2nd
I see a clear difference between a state enforcing laws for protecting society and moral decisions regarding having power of life and death over all civilians.

I am torn on this one on a personal level but this is pretty black and white biblically. Don't kill. Now, if you killed yourself... you killed. What if that last day of suffering was the last step you needed to prepare your heart and soul for heaven? What if don't kill actually means don't kill? That could be an issue at judgement.

Can you provide a NT verse and is black and white on this subject?

Here is the thing, and this is from a purely christian standpoint. My life is not supposed to be on my terms. If I ain't dead yet, I am not supposed to be. My life still has a reason, whatever it is.

I have attended a deathbed ceremony- I say that because I don't know what else to call it. We sat there and watched this lady we knew for years, pass on. She had been riddled with cancer for years. We sang songs, took turns talking to her, stayed with her as she passed on. I learned alot those days. Probably more than if I had just volunteered to pull a plug. I know for me, that experience was invaluable in it's own way.

That's the thing- what is Gods plan? Oftentimes, we don't know. We just have to go with it. Painful, joyful, dark, come what may. I don't see anything in the New Testament that would point to anything else. That being said, no possible way I could hold everyone to this standard, how you want to go out is up to you.

and did you read my post about the translation of "thou shalt not kill"? I was wondering if anybody here who had studied the bible (especially the OT I guess) has heard of that translation discrepancy. seems to me it kind of HAS to be the "thou shalt not murder" thing since, hell, we kill a whole lot of people on a regular basis.

fyp
Get your labels right noob ShakeZuma wouldn't have made this mistake

Very cool... I like his thinking. Is he still secretly assisting people?
I guess if he were really secret ... you wouldnt know.

But anyhoooo... I hope he is

I've never looked into it, but I'll try to do so for the sake of discussion. I've always assumed that it meant murder, since God was constantly commanding people to kill others. That wouldn't make much sense.

Old Testament, sure. In the New we see Christ telling Peter to put up his sword. We see Christians being beheaded, and going all the way to there death as God see fit. I will try and find a black and white on it for you, though.

RACIST!

I agree with this. It's a tricky subject.
Which is doing more harm: Keeping a person barely alive against his will in constant excruciating pain or allowing them to end his life peacefully on his own terms?

This is where I get frustrated to the point where I don't think there is any point in discussing this. Frustrated is probably the wrong word but I will stick with it right now.

Devout Christians will say no and everyone else pretty much says yes. No one is going to sway the other.

Reading Lois' post about how God makes the choice and if you are alive, pain or not, you have a purpose, well I get where he is coming from but for me, I don't believe that so assisted suicide would be a option for me if it ever came down to it. The issue then turns into who gets to tell who what to do in life.

For me, if someone is in pain and the pain cannot be treated and they are terminal, I would not feel I have the right to tell that person what to do. If they believe in what Lois said and decided not to do it, then fine, their personal life choice based on their own beliefs and morals. But if they didn't believe what Lois said then I have no issue with them doing what they feel is necessary. In my opinion it is their life. But I maybe making a poor assumption with this but I suspect BG and lois might disagree with me and say that it is not their life but Gods life and he calls the shots. I just can't agree with that.

This post sucks.

Pretty sure that a person can refuse to be kept on a machine, as can his spouse etc, if they determine that there will be no change as it is.

But still, do we want Doctors with the ability to kill you? They already think they are god, why add to their sociopathic behaviours?

Pretty sure that a person can refuse to be kept on a machine, as can his spouse etc, if they determine that there will be no change as it is.

But still, do we want Doctors with the ability to kill you? They already think they are god, why add to their sociopathic behaviours?

Both valid points. The argument over this and abortion never really comes down to more than "but I want to, damnit, it's my life." Maybe for you, but for a christian, not so much so. It's not your life, you belong to God now.

I get really annoyed at general statements like this about doctors. It's really sad that in today's society a lot of people have no respect for doctors. Apparently now it's par for the course to assume that all doctors are arrogant pricks with god complexes who deserve to be sued whenever possible. I'm sure some are like that, but most are good people (just like in every other profession).

Old Testament, sure. In the New we see Christ telling Peter to put up his sword. We see Christians being beheaded, and going all the way to there death as God see fit. I will try and find a black and white on it for you, though.

I get really annoyed at general statements like this about doctors. It's really sad that in today's society a lot of people have no respect for doctors. Apparently now it's par for the course to assume that all doctors are arrogant pricks with god complexes who deserve to be sued whenever possible. I'm sure some are like that, but most are good people (just like in every other profession).

I agree, 95% of them give the rest of the them a bad name.

What do you care?

It's not like you're a doctor or anything