Playing in the ridiculous but profitable 5/10 NLHE, 100 dollar MAX buy in at the Hard Rock. Would love to hear comments just on that structure....but on to the hand:


Hero {$1120} sitting CO with [8s7s]
Villain 1 {$450} is BB with [xx]
Villain 2 is {$2500+} is UTG+2 with [xx]

Villain 1 is a player I know well. He is at the Rock all the time and is a tight but smart player. Not someone to mess with. One of the better players I see there.

Villain 2 is a strange old Cuban man who also plays a lot. He can be a rock sometimes but other times he can really get mad and start to play erratically. He has been playing in this session for over 15 hours and at one point was up to $4000 in chips but has started to bleed off courtesy double ups. I have usually run incredibly well against him (one time I put a 2 outer on him for 2000 bucks) and so he always looks to get me and gets stubborn against me.


Action: Folds to Villain 2 who makes it 40 to go. Standard raise for him. Folds to me and I flat call in the CO. Cuban guy usually only raises with big hands so I want to look for a flop to stack him. Villain 1 just calls. I am perplexed by his hand....he usually either re-raises or folds out of the blinds. I have no clue what he might have at this point.

Flop is: Ks6h4s

Villain 1 (BB) bets out 100. Villain 2 thinks for 30 seconds and then just calls. Hero does ???

ship it? that's the standard play anyways. But it sounds like you have a lot more knowledge of these players/reads than we do.

Villain 1's play looks a lot like a set. When a tight player who is usually very aggressive preflop or folds, smooth calls, he usually has a hand he's looking to flop a big hand with, like 22-77. Then, when he donkbets, he's probably looking to get raised. However, the problem with this is that he is rather poor. Since he has less than 50bbs, I'm def. shipping in his last couple hundred. I make it 500 which will squeeze out player two if player 1 calls (And we'll nearly be racing), and even if player 1 folds, player two will then be the one thinking we have a set and will want to get out of the way. Even if he is stubborn with you, he's unlikely to play a big hand with you when you raise two players.

I agree with NoBBiR that Villian 1's play looks a lot like a set. I think his actions look a lot like a small PP, and given the drawing board, he's looking to simultaneously protect his hand while inducing a raise from the PFR with AA, AK, KQ. There's a small chance he might have played AK timidly pre-flop, though given your descriptions of his usual actions out of the blinds, I don't think this is as likely.

Villain 2's actions are a bit puzzling. I think he's either unsure of his hand with something like QQ-TT and scared of the K, or he's risking a slowplay with a monster like KK. You haven't said much about his aggressiveness, but I don't think he'd play a hand like AK this slowly with the flush and straight draw possibilities out there. There's also a chance that he has a higher flush draw than you. Maybe an AsQs-type hand.

Given these possibilities, I don't think there's much point in raising here. It might be a small +EV play, but its very high variance. Villain 1 is unlikely to fold here, and Villain 2 may re-raise (if he is slowplaying KK). As such, there's virtually no fold equity, and you're relying purely on the odds of making your hand. Given probably 12 outs, I'd just call, and see what happens on the turn.

If the board pairs, you can probably fold to aggression, and if you hit, you can charge the players to try and book up if they have a set. There's also a chance you'll hit a non-spade 5, and possibly win a huge pot against Villain 2 (if he is slowplaying). If the board doesn't pair, it's just an odds game for hitting your hand again. If a spade comes and there's huge action from Villain 2, you can then decide whether you think your flush is good.

Also, part of the reason I'd play it this timidly is the fact that you don't really want to gamble, even on a small +EV play, when if you lose (at least against Villain 2), you can only rebuy for $100. Presumably, it would take you a while to get your stack back to the stage where you can really make decent money (BB-wise) again.

Just my 2-cents,

BK.

I think that's somewhat flawed logic. With a draw, you either want to force everyone out or you want to get as many people putting money in as possible.

Suppose villain 1 has 44 and villain 2 has AK. It doesn't matter whether villain 2 folds or not because if we hit we win, and if we miss we lose. If he puts more money in drawing dead then great. Same thing if villain 1 has KQ and villain 2 has AK. Unless one of them has a draw, if we beat one of them, we will beat the other. We prefer to be against both of them because they are just improving our drawing odds.

It's a little different here having money behind after villain 1 is allin, but the principle is still there.



I agree with shoving anyway because I think we win the pot a decent % of the time uncontested.

The structure sucks donkey balls.

Even though the raiser has a big enough stack for you to play real poker with him, the other players don't. The button might wake up here with a "monster" hand like AJ and might reasonably decide it's worth a shove for $125.

Or you could run into what you have now: the short stack protects the pot so you can't bluff. You can't scare somebody with a short stack.

There's really not much point in playing this hand at all.

ez call IMO

lol, i thought the flop was all spades and started to think you were all insane reading the posts.

I'd raise it up against one player with the intention of getting in, but two always makes it more difficult. I don't like calling as it turns our hand face up and gives us little chance of getting paid, over calling is either a big draw or a slowpayed set.
I'd put villian one all in(or essentially) If the Cuban is how you said he was, we can probably get a free card on the turn off him if we want, we have position. The more I think, the more tricky it is. I suppose calling can work but still I'd be happier if we had villian one out of the way.

Is the 100 dollar max buy in a typo?

100 max is the law in Florida.

Yeah I suppose you're right. Still, given that we likely have FE against 1 of 2 or both players, I'd have to think that you have to put it in here because we're so likely to pick up the pot.




Omg I didn't even see 100 max. Why in gods name would you play 5/10 100max? I feel super gross about playing 100max 1/2NL, but 5/10 is like blah. I'd rather get stabbed in the eyes. It's like playing a super short 9 handed donkament with rebuys.

Whenever I feel sad, I just stop being sad, and be AWESOME instead.

I think I raise this enough to get V1 all in and see what villain 2 does. We're prob not folding.

For the record, the 2-5 100 max game is one of the most profitable and enjoyable games ever.

I see little value in raising here since we have 8 high and one opponent who easily has a set. Just flat call and try and make your draw cheaply at this point.

I used to play the 2/5NL game. It is as soft as you say. I moved up to 5/10 because thats where all the money is. People just gamble until a good portion of the table has a big stack.

I hate the structure obviously, but, it is the only live poker around. And the players are SOOOO bad that it is worth it I think although some people might disagree.

Results:

Turn was a J of spades. BB bet out 150. PFR insta-called. I raised to 475 (enough to put BB all in). BB thought forever and looked like he was doing math. He finally called all-in. PFR thought for a bit and also called. (I was worried now he had AQ of spades or something.)

River was basically a brick (3 of diamonds). PFR checked. I had no idea what to do at all....so I did the dumbest thing probably and made a tiny tiny bet of 200 (I have no idea why...it was dumb I had a brain fart). Cuban looked amused and insta called. BB had 44, PFR had AA (with ace of spades), and I scooped the huge pot.