Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (9 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)
Seat 2: Button($4.60)
Seat 4: BB($2.10)
Seat 7: Hero($13.55)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J , J .
2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) Q , 4 , J (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB 3-bets, Hero ????

I didn't know too much about these two other than the BB had just busted and rebought for 2 bucks. How do you approach this situation? I figured that I was up against maybe a combo of two pair, the spade Ace/king, another set, and of course a flush.

What would you do?

Easiest. Cap. Ever.

Think of the benefits and costs of capping here. If we're behind, we still have a boatload of equity. If we're ahead, well, we're ahead and want to cap. You're never looking at QQ here, btw, so we're never ever drawing to 1 out.

If he leads a non spade turn after my cap, I call down, and obv jam if we boat up.

yeah im also capping it. even against a flush we have like 30% or something, and we're not always against a flush.

i still raise a non spade turn (even after we cap), but call down if 3bet

Cap. You're either ahead, or dawing to 7 outs now, which will increase to 10 outs on the turn if you don't fill up. Jumbo equity.

Not only is capping it good for those reasons, but a few others as well. Even if our villain has the flush, odds aren't exactly high that he has the nut flush. So capping it, and continuing to after the turn and river, will obviously be a show of enormous strength. If the villain has even a flush, he's got to take into consideration that you have a better one (assuming your image is a decent one). Even if this only adds a fold every ten hands, it's still a higher pecentage to win for you. Also, if a 4th spade drops, and the villain is NOT holding the A or K of spades, he will beleive you are an aweful lot of the time, and he'll fold a lot more there too. And alstly, if you cap, and he himself is drawing to the flush still, you can oftne get him to lay it donw here.

Capping just doesn't give you time to hit your outs, but also gives you several additional ways to get your opponent to lay it down ocasionally, which can only add to your reasons (the ones mentioend above by other posters).

you have some good ideas and well thought out, but i think you give players too much credit.

a flush is never folding. even a small flush will call down.
the extra bluffing opportunity against a flush if another spade falls would be good, except there are 2 villains left, and we rarely can get both of them to fold

we don't want a flush draw to fold. we want them drawing as an underdog, especially when we have a redraw to a boat even if they do make it.

At some size pot (someone can do the math) We do want a 7 out draw to fold.

I agree made flushes are not folding.
(way) Outside chance a low flush folds to a 4th flush card dropping.


I really hope AdamC doesn't conform.. Rise and Zach may beat all the individualism out of him.

Im the child of an angry Irish woman and a gay man...I'm fairly certain I don't need to worry about conforming.

Thanks for all the discussion.

If you wanted to know
Results:
Button had A spade 10 heart
BB had 2 spade 5 spade
Action went button capped, then called the BB's turn bet, and raised the river bet with no improvement (no notable cards came)

take good notes of the hands they played and how they played them.

i'd note BB defends with anything suited and c/r'es when he hits
and button cold called a raise with ATo, then raised one card flush + gutshot, shutting out the rest of the field (though it was only one opponent)

Do you really note that stuff, baseed on one hand?

then read it during a close decision?

And multitable?

And think it helps?

thanks!

yep. and if you think it doesn't help.... your money helped buy me a new car.

oh and i dont just read it during close decisions. i read it everytime i'm at a table with anyone.
if i know that this guy doesn't 3bet tens preflop or this guy is calling down with K high or this guy steals from the CO with 78
how is that NOT going to help me?

i do more or less the same, and yes, it helps.

I will change or adjust a note as needed based on new observations. I'd rather have something noted than nothing. typically if I'm four tabling, I'll add a note on almost every player during the first hour. The notes I have taken have made life alot easier.

A person needs to understand that observing something one time may not be significant enough to be noteworthy, especially in light of Credibility.

Obviously if you can read fast and still think clearly and you have a balance between your obeservations and the "unknown typical player read", I think it could only help to take as many notes as feasible.

in summary:
downside: Small sample sizes being relied on to heavily. One hand is a prety useless note, imo, unless you jsut say "He's capable of defending with any suited given x number of players in the pot, on a Tuesday night after he has not played a hand for 17 hands... "

You wanna throwdown with me?

sure

those little things are waaaay better than having no read at all.
you wont use that specific hand to judge all his other hands, and as RT said you made adjustments to your notes all the time.
I have tons more notes on most players than just one hand. ill note any interesting or out of line hand they played

you use the notes to get a general sense of how that person plays.
when the pros "read" people they use physical tells, sure, but they're also keeping track and remembering how a person played a certain hand or what hands the person has showed down in the past

like i said, i dont read the notes when i have a decision to make against a person.
i read them as soon as i sit down at a table with any person i have notes on.

you rely on poker tracker? you should.
then why wouldnt you rely on notes of specific hands that person has played?

I don't agree with Actuary. Having a note that MIGHT be a tendency is better than having no note at all.

I didn't used to take notes until mikeysong finally convinced me to while playing 6-max, and it helped a lot. Now for HU all I do is take notes, and I don't even run a HUD. I'd be lost without notes.

you misseed my point. Multiple notes applied proportionally makes sense.
Haphazord notes made on 1 sample size might tend to be over-weighted in the decisions.



I have him on ignore.

I believe we're all aware of this, and understand that during the application of our notes.

I believe I'm aware that all of you who use notes are aware of that
I also believe that anyone who would suggest someone make a note of something should not presume that person to whom he made the suggestion, would know how to use the notes properly. Otherwise, you'd have to assume the recipient of that recomendation would know enough to make the note and Rise would never have to say it in the first place.

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nobody is ever folding a flush here, not if the betting was capped by the time it got to them.