Full ring game with deep stacks. Im in the CO with q7off. Player to my right raises to 3.50, I call and one other caller. Three to the flop

FLOP: Jh Qc 7h.

Player 1 checks, Original raiser bets out 8. I think for a moment and raise to 28. Player 1 folds and villain calls.

TURN: 5h

Villain checks. I contemplate for about 15 seconds and bet out 35. Villain mumbles i dont think i can fold and calls.

River: 2h putting 4 hearts out there.

Villain bets out 50 instantly.

Hero??????



Villain is probably the best player in the game with about 170 bb and im pretty much the second best with about 250 bb. I realize my hand becomes a bluff catcher at this point but i felt he was good enough and experienced enough to make a play at the pot. I felt like he was just waiting for a good card to do so.... Villain is a normal 1/2 player..... So far throughout the night we have respected eachother and really havent gotten into any confrontations.

Before i talk about some of the other psychology that went on at the end of the hand i want to hear what you guys think so far.

Fold preflop.

I think you should fold preflop. I think you should bet the turn harder and I think you should fold the river. Even if you are getting like 3.6:1.

folding preflop is pretty standard. and when i mentioned that him and i were the best players in the game, it wasnt to talk myself up, we are just the most experienced and think deeper about the game, as opposed to the rest of the table who are mainly there just to hang out and have a good time, although we've never played together.

while i agree that q7off is a lil less than marginal, against my oppenent, i felt standard plays and standard hands just arent going to work. unless its aa vs kk, i dont see us getting into any big confrontations, and i wanted to send him a clear message. we both have a lot of respect for eachother, and we kind of have the same playing style....

i dont normally call raises with q7, but i felt it was a good situation with a hand out of my range.

as far as the turn bet. maybe i shoulda bet more, i didnt really look at the pot enough, i felt like it was a big raise. mainly though, i wanted to bet a solid number, 30-35-40 as opposed to 37.5 to signal that i meant business. also, i wanted to be cautious of the flush. i felt if i bet 35 and got raised i could minimize my loss while getting away from the hand.

This is backwards thinking. If the other players are truly bad and this guy is the best player, you don't want to be going out of your way to get into confrontations with him, certainly not with bad, easily-dominated hands like Q7.

As far as this particular hand is concerned, did you have the Qh?

And to answer the question in your thread title...yes.

lol ahhhh i hate sounding stupid infront of large groups of people.

um the mistake im referring to is on the turn bet, and maybe the flop raise???

i actually really like my call, and yea i understand its backwards thinking. but like i said, him and i play similarly and think about the game deeply. therefore, my hand is easily dominated but so is his raising range. i was CO and he was to my right, by calling, the button folded and i had position in the hand, and the better player.

against a weaker player, i wouldnt be playing the q7. but against him, most of our pots i feel are goin to be more meta game than straight standard hands.

also, dont undervalue q7 and q8.... lol

no i didnt have the qh

also. as far as the session goes, i wasnt TRYING to get in confrontations. this was really the first time i made a play like this.

and im not goin to give up a pot or a situation because i think hes better than me. and im not betting on aa vs kk. im goin to play and mix it up, if it doesnt work, ive lost 3.5 but ill gain that back later with the added value and deception im creating

I could not agree more.

the reason he's better than you is he prob. doesn't call from the CO w/ q7 off.


Have to fold river.

double post.

So villian aq off or what?

Anyway, bet hard turn. Can't do much about that river.



And further, FOLD pre flop. For all the reasons stated above. Poker's about winning not ego, seems like your need to outplay this guy is what makes you want to call pre here. At least, personally I think if you can check the ego and play well you do better.

No 'Thinking deeply' is not an excuse for the pre flop call.

you don't see the lions going after each other....
I try to avoid confrontations with the better players at the table, especially w/ a totally unconnected hand, and a hand even if you hit may get you in lots of trouble... i.e. this situation..

save your money for players with a lower quality of play

and, if you want to make that play it's fine, as I will do that as well to mix things up... but, I would much rather do it with a 6 8 suited, or even a 4 6 suited... or a 2 - 5...

I think there's very little strat advice to give you for river decision. You stated yourself that you only have a bluff catcher. We fold all bluff catchers unless bluff makes up huge part of his range. Only read that hints that bluff might be part of his range was:



So the bluff part in his range is solely based on your feelings. Nobody else can give bluff % based on your feelings unless you explain further.

I'm not sure it's possible to undervalue a hand this weak.

Has anyone mentioned fold PF?
Not even I play that shit.
2c 4c? Absolutely.
Q7 off? Ha. Never.