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Full Version: Trip Queens Turned Full House On The River-value Bet Question.
FCP Poker Forum > Poker Strategy Forum > Limit Texas Hold'em
ricardob
very loose table(5+ to the flop), usually not raised pre-flop, but some players became aggr after the flop.
MP1 is the biggest calling machine I've seen(bought in for 18 dollars...had 7 when I left).

I'm not sure if the flop cap is good here, but considering the game and the loose opponents felt right, was considering on slowing on the turn if a bllank came.
The turn gave me the best hand and since he was reraising me so much I tought he had a set which made me happy.
On the river that 7 scared me, because if indeed he a set of sevens he had me beat, so I called.

Should I have raised?

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: ITH Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with qs.gif, qd.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 7s.gif, 2d.gif, 8h.gif (5 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero caps, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.20 BB) qh.gif (3 players)
BB bets, MP1 folds, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

River: (19.20 BB) 7c.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 21.20 BB
KoRnholio
Just call the flop 3bet, no one is folding to a cap. If an 8, 7 or 9 comes off I slow down on the turn.

Cap river... omg. Only one hand beats you, and he often shows up with 87/88 here and we can win a lot of bets.
Zach6668
wtf raise the river
Roo6339
I'm raising and capping that river EVERY time... 100%. Never worry about quads. If he has them, good for him, he wins a big pot and you just have to move on. You can't be scared of quads though. I like capping the flop and calling down the turn unimproved if he leads. Obvious cap when your miracle card comes though.

Seriously though, raise that river.
Roo6339
QUOTE (KoRnholio @ Tuesday, May 6th, 2008, 1:34 PM) *
Just call the flop 3bet, no one is folding to a cap. If an 8, 7 or 9 comes off I slow down on the turn.


I think we're ahead often enough to cap for value.
DCJ001
QUOTE (Zach6668 @ Monday, May 5th, 2008, 11:36 PM) *
wtf raise the river

But what if villain held 77?
pokerkid
Who doesn't cap the flop here?
Metternich
not capping that river is a crime against poker.
ricardob
QUOTE (Metternich @ Tuesday, May 6th, 2008, 7:06 AM) *
not capping that river is a crime against poker.


alright, alright...stop hitting me with the stick. I got it now!

Thanks.
Frez
QUOTE (DCJ001 @ Monday, May 5th, 2008, 10:11 PM) *
But what if villain held 77?


But what if there is a monster under my bed??? Don't live in fear.

If there is no limit on the river raises heads up, I'd be willing to put in 4 or 5 bets with this hand before I really start to wonder and just call. If there is a cap, then cap it PLEASE.

FWIW, I think villan's turn line is more 88 than 77. And let's not rule out 22 here.
DCJ001
QUOTE (Frez @ Tuesday, May 6th, 2008, 7:32 PM) *
But what if there is a monster under my bed??? Don't live in fear.

If there is no limit on the river raises heads up, I'd be willing to put in 4 or 5 bets with this hand before I really start to wonder and just call. If there is a cap, then cap it PLEASE.

FWIW, I think villan's turn line is more 88 than 77. And let's not rule out 22 here.

Have you looked under your bed, lately?

Aren't you missing a pair of shoes?

I guess that you didn't get the J Tilly reference from PAD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6wAHTWeEA
Actuary
QUOTE (KoRnholio @ Monday, May 5th, 2008, 7:34 PM) *
Just call the flop 3bet, no one is folding to a cap.


yeah, good pt.
worse hands calling sucks

OP,

BB puts you on overplayesx overapair often enough that you must give him a much wider range than quads.
Also, just look at card combos
He played 78, and 22 and 88 correctly as well up to this point.
Roo6339
QUOTE (Actuary @ Wednesday, May 7th, 2008, 2:37 PM) *
yeah, good pt.
worse hands calling sucks


Isn't this the definition of value? Worse hands calling? I know it means getting sucked out on more often, but we also win more when we do.
Frez
QUOTE (DCJ001 @ Tuesday, May 6th, 2008, 8:05 PM) *
I guess that you didn't get the J Tilly reference from PAD:


I saw the Tilly hand. I also remember the one time I got a walk with 72 in the BB and flopped 772.

Let's look at villans range of reasonable hands - by that I mean hands that most of us would play the same way:

77 - 1 combo
87s - 1 combo
87o - 5 other combos, but I think offsuit is less likely so I will only count 2
22 - 2 combos
88 - 3 combos

So 9 potential hands, only 1 of which beats us. And that does not count hands like 99, TT, or JJ that may have flat called from a blind PF and gone nuts on the undercard flop. The turn action makes me think these are unlikely, but I've seen stranger things, and this is a pocket change game. If we count even 3 or 4 of those 24 combos, we're ahead like 93% of the time here.
Zach6668
A lot of you guys suck REALLY hard at sarcasm.
ricardob
blush.gif villain had 87o
Zach6668
If you want the math, quickly...

On this river, there's exactly 1 combo that beats us, and we beat 22, 88, 87. That's 3, 3, and 6 combos respectively. So.... We win this pot 12/13 times. Since we only need to be ahead 50%+ for a bet to be profitable, we need to raise and cap this, basically, as he'd play all of these hands the same, imho.
Roo6339
QUOTE (Zach6668 @ Thursday, May 8th, 2008, 1:45 AM) *
A lot of you guys suck REALLY hard at sarcasm.


I wasn't being sarcastic if you're including me in that. If you took it as sarcasm I must be way off.
Zach6668
No, you weren't being sarcastic, but Actuary clearly was.
Actuary
QUOTE (Roo6339 @ Wednesday, May 7th, 2008, 1:10 PM) *
I wasn't being sarcastic if you're including me in that. If you took it as sarcasm I must be way off.



navybuttons
QUOTE (Actuary @ Wednesday, May 7th, 2008, 7:27 PM) *


these little guys are AMAZING.
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