PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG (t1820)
Hero (t2970)
MP2 (t2435)
CO (t1090)
Button (t1420)
SB (t2965)
BB (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A, A.
1 fold, Hero raises to t120, MP2 calls t120, 4 folds.

Flop: (t285) K, J, 4 (2 players)
Hero bets t200, MP2 calls t200.

Turn: (t685) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets t400, MP2 raises to t800, Hero [tanks] and folds.

Final Pot: t1485

Villain is total unknown. $1.20 9 player donkaments.

I can kind of tell you the results because after in the chat I said, "That hurt my feelings." and he engaged me in conversation.

Blurgh, standard gross spot. You're drawing dead here nearly all the time.

Your bet sizing is fine, these $1.20 goons wouldn't lay down a flush draw at gunpoint. Good fold.

I dont know if I can lay this down. Hes called a raise PF with 4 players behind him and fairly shallow stacks. Thats pretty bad with suited connectors. Slowplaying a set against that board is also pretty awful, he should be building a pot and charging draws. I would put him on a pair and a spade, not totally believing your "continuation bets". Id call and reevaluate on the river, only folding to a spade. The ugly possibility is AQs, but I think you have to risk that.

Though it's bad, I can see villain making a loose call of a standard PF raise in the early levels with a variety of marginal drawing hands (like suited connectors) and the players behind being far shorter, because he's still got plenty of options. If he's reraised, he gets out. If he gets overcalls behind him, the implied odds are looking good if he hits. If the shorter stacks behind him fold, he has position on the flop. If the flop misses, he gets out. If he flops a made hand or a strong draw, he's in and has a good chance to stack his opponent as long as the others keep the pot odds affordable for him.

A play being one that one would consider bad doesn't necessarily mean that players won't make it, or have no reason to make it other than chasing.

Agreed, buy it also makes those hands less likely if the player is rational. Maybe they arent at this level!

yea agree with above definitely

They're not. Insanity is standard.

I think the fold is the right play. What are you going to do on the river when your opponent bets the pot? You don't have the Ace of spades so you are probably dead on the turn.

They will deal another hand. Promise.

i hafta say it sucks monkey nuts....but what he said is the right play i think.

I curious to know why you/Hero bet the turn if you were going to fold to a re-r? You did think thru the bet before you made it right? Reason I ask is that the 8 may have made his flush but it is also a scare card perfect for a bluff/semi/bluff. I agree with cops, there is some but not convincing evidence that the flush was made:
1: the re-r was a min-r giving Hero excellent odds to call with A or K
2: a lot of players will slowplay the newly made flush to the river
3: the scare card presents an excellent bluff opportunity.

Back to Hero's turn bet - had you check instead, villians bet would have probably been about what you bet was = 400 and an easy call to the river. But leading out and calling suddenly dbls the cost of calling it down. You see the point of my question?

My guess is he was charging for the draw, but I agree 400 is a bit big. a blocker/charging bet of 250 gets as much done as 400 and is easier to fold.

I really don't think this is a bluff, like ever.

Maybe in other games but not in a $1.20. The typical player in these games are loose-passives. I made the turn bet to continue getting value from the hands like QT, AK, KQ, AJ, JT and the other misc crap he will call me with that hits that flop. I really don't even think the typical players in $1.20s understand what a scare card is and for every min-raise bluff I see, I see about ten min-raises for value. It's impossible for him to be worried about me having the K:spade: since it is the first card on the board. If he's offering me good pot oddas, don't you think it makes it more likely he isn't on a bluff? Also, if I call now on the turn I am pot committed on the river, since Villian will have 1.3k behind and there will be close to double that in the pot

Also, I found this statement to be a little rude. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but there is absolutely no reason to ask me that.

A lot of actions become so automatic this is a question I have to ask myself all too frequently - often after making what I think was an avoidable mistake in my game! It helps me slow down.
No, I didn't intend it to be rude and I apologize since you found it offensive. However there was a good reason to ask - did you? If not, then it is possible you acted too quickly and didn't give yourself enough time to analysis the situation before making your play. Chris Ferguson sets a standard for this point in that he always takes his time to think thru the actions taken and to be taken b4 taking making he believe to be most correct. In a tread on a forum looking back with all the time in the world is not the same as being in the heat of the hand trying to make good choices under pressure but it is a good time to try and spot areas for improvement.

Good comments, I understand more clearly what you meant now.

I did think the decision through though, and I felt there was still a reasonable portion of his range I could get value from. I think against loose passive players that is a large part of where my edge is. I can get closer to maximum value from my made hands than they can. I think I am going to get floated here by a lot of kings, a lot of jacks and various open ended and inside straight draws. I think generally speaking it is correct to bet for value a little thinner than you would in tougher games.

I suppose there is definitely something to be said for betting a little lighter on the turn as you and Cop have suggested, but I don't think 400 into 685 is too bad. I would imagine I easily have more than 36% equity against his range.

Insta fold.. what are you beating?

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