i dont have a hand converter for this one but i'll give it my best to make it readable.

we are 7 handed

i cannot remember everyones stacks exactly but i'll get it ballpark close for the ones in the hand.

I am BB with about 6500

UTG+2 has about 4000

Button has prolly 8000

dealt to Berwatchey:

plinds are at 75/150

UTG+2 calls

Button raises to 300

Berwatchey calls

UTG+2 calls

Pot(975)


flop

Berwatchey checks
UTG+2 checks
Button bets 300
All Players call

Pot 1875

Turn

Berwatchey Checks
UTG+2 Checks
Button bets 900
all players call
pot(4575)

River

Berwatchey???


i'm just gonna say right off the bat i felt that to be the absolute worst cxard short of the board pairing.

I don't know how that is possibly the worst card that could come. Are you afraid of being up against J8 here? Without a diamond coming on the river or the board not pairing, I can't imagine being behind here. Also wondering why so passive on the flop and the turn?

So what am I missing? Board is 6s 7h 9h Td Ad. You are holding the second nuts here? And the absolute nuts going to the river. 300 is a really low flop bet for a pot of 975. And you are letting everyone come along by check/calling. I guess that isn't horrible if you are going to get them all in when any card (especially the A) comes on the turn. How about check raising here? Or just leading out hoping someone hit AT?

I feel like I am missing something completely. I need a drink.

i think the only card that should scare you on that river is a K...
but other then that... I can understand the call on the flop, but you need to be raising that turn...
you are letting anyone who now has a diamond draw to see it on teh cheap... and, you are greatly minimizing and return you are going to get by flopping the nuts by waiting to the river to bet it

I can understand the flop check, but the Turn check was terrible. The A is an absolute Yahtzee card. Id lead out 2/3 or even pot size, and you'd probably still get action.

The problem with your play is you have absolutely no idea where you are because you've played it so passively.

yeah, guess that is what I was trying to say. Slow playing the flop? I guess you can do that. But you have to start moving on that turn.

EDIT: SuperJeff jumped in and wrote that. My head still hurts from my original response.

i'm an idiot. the ace was a club.

i clicked the wrong code. i edited the top.

if it had been a flush card i would have led.

Lead anyway, or at least check raise them. Get those chips in there now. You are better off winning a decent pot here then losing a larger pot on the river. .

The A is an action card. If you bet and represent the A here, chances are the other A will come along with you. You have the nuts. You have to put chips in the pot in order to win some, and being out of position you can't always rely on others to push the action. Like Poker Addict said, take the little pot. You can't always double up with the nuts, but you can certainly lose it on the river.

so, i really did figure i was supposed to lead the turn card. i considered this possibility, but decided not to for several reasons that i'll name

1. pretty solid read on the better. at best he had a set but i suspected he had a hand like a 9 or a 10.
2. solid read on the UTG+2 player: she loves to draw. shes playing exactly how i would expect her to play an open ended str8 draw. i figured her for j q
3.i decided to play my hand un-conventionally to maby disguise it and get it and maby get paid more on the river. with the "open ended" draw calling his raises after me, i'm getting 2 to 1 on every call. and then when i shove the river i'm more likely to get a call. as they have got so much in.

and like i said, normally i'd play it standard and chip it in. but i decided to play it screwy with my solid reads.

so when the ace hit the turn i put him on 2 pair even before i checked, and knew that maby utg paired the ace, but was most likely still drawing. with these reads i can pretty much safely muck if a bad cards come.


river was the 7 so in my head i decided that only j 8 can beat me. but for some reason at the time i decided j 8 was not an open ended draw and therefore not in UTG+2's range. which is retarded because it is. but basically with 4 thousand in the pot and me having about that much i shoved.

utg+2 snap called.
Button tanks, then mucks A 10 face up.

i show my str8

she turns over the nuts.

i'll justify my play by only this. i had a 7 and an 8. which gave even less outs to complete the open ender(if my read was right) so at best they were drawing for 4 kings and 3 7's at best (i thought she was drawing for the 3 remaining 8's) thts 7 outs max. the a 10 read was drawing for an ace or a 10. 7 handed i thought my odds of holding up were pretty high and it was worth trying to trap.

i'm not gonna whine because i got drawn out on, thats the risk i took for slow playing to the river and letting them draw out.

my only question is, is there a time when you would do what i did, play it un conventionally to try to disguise your hand and get more action from 2 players? or am i just stupid?

Personally I don't think slowplays are all that effective in SnGs (I assume this was one?) as there is less time and fewer opportunities to use them than in MTTs. Also I don't slowplay past the Turn. I think the last time I slowplayed to the river was when I flopped quad Jacks and was hoping a str8 or flush would hit one of my opps. The best rants I've ever seen have come from tricky players slowplaying big hands only to find out there was a bigger one coming - I prefer to charge for the privilage of sucking out..

Slow plays are dangerous when the board texture is unfavorable. In your case, there are a couple draws there that beat you if they get there. Therefore, imo, this is not a good spot for a slow play.

Pay very close attention to the texture of the flop.

So you suspected these players were drawing to the nuts, yet you let them for free? This makes no sense. If you were going to do this to be profitable, you should have at least given them good odds to call, then if the river bricked, you win. You played this hand to lose.



Why are you even thinking of mucking? You have the nuts. Make them pay something here. You should not be thinking of ways to lose this hand, but ways to win mobnies.

The fact is, again, you let them beat you. By your logic here, you are playing against 12 outs here. The idea is to make them make the tough decisions, and make them make mistakes by chasing, not to let the cards dictate everything.



To be honest, the only time I would do what you did is if I had an unbeatable hand.

People didn't seem to have a big problem with a slow play on the flop. But after that you have to start inducing action. If you were in position and someone was betting into you, you could call depending on who it was and go from there. But OOP, you have to bet into it. Especially from the turn on. I lead into the flop too, because I expect to get paid off. People have a very hard time believing that someone flopped the nuts and then on top of that would lead into it. This disguises your hand more then slow playing to a lot of poor players.

i'm gonna have to say that everyone was right. although i wasnt exactly letting them see free cards, i felt like i was letting them do my betting for me. but now that i think about it it is 12 cards in the deck to beat me and thats alot of outs. and on top of that i'm OOP. if i was heads up and not 3 handed i think that left enough outs to slowplay as long as i can guarntee bets. but with this many people in it was a way bad move.

in this case i'm gonna say i definately played bad. for the record tho i wasnt mad that they drew out, it was my fault after all for letting them draw it.

last question, in position heads up would anyone be opposed to playing passivly untill the river as long as i'm seeing 1/2 and 2/3 sized pot bets on every street?

Ugh. If you put dude on two pair or a set, don't you think you're getting action even if you stick a raise in (or lead) on the turn?

Plus, with the small flop and smallish turn bets, you're letting the drawer correctly draw to their better straight (esp. with implied odds). Like was said, make them pay for their draws.

If you take it down on the turn with a raise, you still att 1875 to your chipstack to start the hand - a pretty sizable increase.

Also, if you think button would fold the turn, what river do you think he calls a shove with?

Lastly, BBFIDS

and thats why i post hands like this in the forum

so when i act tarded, people can point it out. thanks for the responses.

That's what we are all here for.

I'd be lying if I told you I haven't done that before.

But that's how we learn

OK I'll admit it - this one has me stumped! Decode svp.

Bad Beat Forum Is Down the Street

but i wasnt complaining about a bad beat......i just wanted my play analized....