PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A , T .
1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB raises, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 7 , 5 , A (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, MP2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 2 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (10 BB) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Looking over this, I think a river bet was in order. Such a standard value-bet I'm annoyed I didn't make it. A better ace (essentially what I was a little scared of) would probably 3-bet the flop and any 2-pair ace would definitely have raised somewhere. Anyway, please give me feedback on each street.

Also I'm trying out a different format for the converter, let me know if you can see everything this time.

I hate preflop soooooooo much.

Flop and turn are great, and I'd bet the river, of course. 3x would be a pretty random hand for someone to have here.

Raise or fold pre-flop? I'm never sure with ATs in that position. SSHE says limp early position, raise MP/LP, but limping early does feel wrong and I've posted a hand similar to this before where I got mixed responses. So what are some advantages to raising (or folding, but I don't think that's right) over limping?

SSHE isn't totally relevant in most online games, fwiw.

ATs is a raise for me.

I'm losing my mind and can't think of the advantages, other than the thought that ATs will have an equity edge, and raising is more fun. I will be back later.

I limp this preflop as well. Raising here means only better hands will usually play with us, while limping invites all the usual loose-passive crap in that we kill and have a huge edge against. I think we actually hurt our equity raising this in ep because we limit the range we get to play against so much.

I bet the river. Everything else I play the same.

I'm almost tempted to make it 3 preflop to buy position and fold out MP2, but I don't think our hand is strong enough, and I prefer the multiway action if I'm dominated by SB.

buy you do raise AQs yes?

"Well yes, because the hands that call are not always going to crush me, like the ones that come along vs ATs"

So you think the loose players are only loose vs limpers but are disciplined folders when you raise?
Heck maybe you get AJ/AQo to fold vs your EP raise (I mean, according to your theory.)
Also, I wonder how much we make because hands like 44-88 call and then fold the flop.
Also we increase our fold equity on the flop vs all kinds of hands.

Do the games suck this hard now?

Often at .25/.50 and .50/1, yes. The worst I see now are something like 40/15/6 or 38/2/.5, with mostly very tight passives thrown in. The games play HU or 3-handed a good portion of the time, though people still have serious flaws, but they tend toward tight agressive flaws rather than loose passive.

Against a raise, the .50/1 games are rock gardens.

That's ****ing gross.

What qualifies as loose these days at .50/1 is something like 26/8/1.0. And yes, they tighten up considerably in raised pots, though the position the raise comes from does not seem to occur to most of them yet. There is a very occasional 44/2/1 or 44/16/6 around spewing, but I have to actively hunt them down and I'm lucky to get one table out of 4 that has such a donk at it.

You know as we get into these talks, you can devise an argument for so many plays.
It can be very subtle. And as your vast experience tells you, it depends. Who limped, who's left, who "respects raises", who folds to CB's, who will set up a c/r for me later, who will pay off on later streets, how often will I be three bet and by whom

So you need to know your table.
And you need to understand how the way you played preflop is affecting the way others are playing and "seeing" your hand post flop.

I have really made some pos changes to my life but not the major one of Studying. Once I do, I'll incorporate some playing again, Just thinking about the game is generally the most my brain is challenged any given day. Maybe a sad commentary on my job. lol. Nah, probably a testament to this game.


( after reading Rabids reply, ugg. Wel, can we steal more? I guess they are pos aware and don't let you steal? What stats do the biggest winners have? Assuming at least 5000 hands in your DB)

There's a style aspect here as well. Some of it is comfort-dependent, as in, for me, raising ATs or AJo in ep puts me in tough postflop situations where I often feel lost and don't believe I play well enough yet to minimize my losses and maximize my gains with marginal hands out of position. Thus, I play not only tighter in ep, but a more conservative style as well, where I give bets and raises more credit so as to avoid these difficult situations.

Too offset my limping a wider range in ep, and raising fairly tightly, I check alot of flops from ep, whether I miss or not, particularly when it's 2 or 3-handed, with the intent to c/f or c/r.

On the other hand, I'm very comfortable in large pots in position, and widen my raising range after several limpers to include alot of hands that play well multiway and would normally be a limp, such as suited connectors and suited Aces. I isolate like a madman from MP on, and c-bet close to always in position against 2 or 3 opponents after i've raised, because the rock garden I speak of will actually fold bottom pairs with 5 outs on uncoordinated boards, even though they are getting 10-1 to call.

I think that's why there's always going to be disagreement on certain plays, particularly preflop where the limp or raise with marginal playable hands in various positions is so dependent on all of the "dependent" factors that it often ends up being nothing more than a comfort and stylistic difference, rather than a massive difference in ev.

wel said Rabid.
these Forums have limited use as the games get tougher and individuals play gets better and people develop their styles. For example, I was a SLAP before SLAP was cool! and had fun arguing my side on several occassions. Nothing like under representing your hand on occassions where agreesion either loses you twice as much or wins you nothing extra.