Table was pretty loose passive preflop... wasn't really paying too much attention other than that.

small sample size but:
UTG is 6/0/1 through 17
SB is 71/0/0.1 through 17


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

MP ($59.35)
Button ($28.15)
SB ($19.60)
Hero ($53)
UTG ($26.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9 , 8 .
UTG raises to $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4) Q , J , T (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, UTG raises to $11.5, Button folds, SB raises to $18.6, Hero?

Snap call?

If UTG doesn't have AK/a set it's likely KQ diamonds vs 2 pair if opponents aren't insane

OK, I never fold here in real time, but if their aggression factors are for real and I interpret them correctly, then we need to fold.

Totally with you on this.

On paper, I look at this and say that even if we're good, we're dodging most of the deck and a lot of times we're not good.

While it's happening, I go, "I CALL I GOT THE NUTSish EAT THAT YOU TWO GOT TRAPPED!"

To be fair, the UTG has played one hand, so his aggression factor is irrelevant, and the other player is loose passive who's committed to going all in if he calls, so he shoved. I almost didn't want to include the aggression factors because I really don't think you can analyze this hand based on "low aggression factors means they have the goods" since the sample size is minimal and the stack sizes.

I'm actually interested on the hand ranges you'd put both of them on.

17 hands is nothing at this point. I don't think you can look at aggression factor this early. I'm a donkey so I prob push to their shorter stacks and hope to be against an utg set and SB's two pair or draw.

$50 NL?

It's not AK; he'd have re-raised preflop.

I get the feeling that he has 98 diamonds and he's freerolling. KQ diamonds also comes to mind.

I ship it in, puke if he actually does have AK, and hope the board gives us a chop.

It could be AK. His range could be anything preflop... he's limped into several pots and hasn't raised one. He's your typical loose passive player preflop.

Also, we don't have the second nuts here. We're not just losing to AK.

Agreed, but it's only part of one of their ranges.

My thinking was something like this on the spot:

a ) I'm dominated by a straight, but even if I lose to UTG, as long as I'm ahead of SB on the river, its a breakeven call (neglecting EV, just saying win/loss on river)
b ) If their both drawing, they take away each other's outs (i.e., sets, 2P, maybe FD (unlikely))
c ) I'm inclined to think AK could possibly be a large part of SB's range, except TT+ is also likely here as well.

They have 50bb stacks or less, this is a tell that they suck. I don't care what their aggro factor is, their range is wider than AK and Kxdd, I shove here pretty happily.

These mutants love to play with crap like K9 too. I call and hate myself in the morning.

If we're behind, we have no way to suck out.
If we're ahead, it ain't by much.
If only one of them is ahead, we're not making more than we lose.

I would have snap called while playing, but if I play around in sharkscope with ranges I think are reasonable we need about 3:1 to make a break even call.

I wouldn't worry too much about SB except for the times he shows up with K9, there are way more combinations of combidraws and two purrs he is showing up with if he is playing 70 something % about his hands. UTG is the d00d whose range is crushing us.

We gots to fold, yo!

that really made laugh out loud!

I think I'm good with this

UTG raised preflop, everyone called.

I kind of disagree. What range do you put him on? I think we're ahead of his range. I think he turns up AK much less than a set or overpair or even TPTK. It's the combined probability that one of them has the straight that makes this a tough call.

UTG?

Before the flop, something like:

KQ, AJ - AK, TT+

After the flop, something like:

TT - AA, AK. We have 39% equity against that range. If you want to get more liberal and throw AQ and KQ in there then we are still flipping with his range.

Your right, I had him on a range of TT+,AQ+ and hes about a 52-48 favourite (I thought i was a slight fav at 55-45), and a slight underdog if you throw in KQ in there as well. As i mentioned earlier though, I think his outs are taken away by SB, and if you put in a range for SB (basically a lot of combinations of face cards, plus TT+) SB's equity drops a lot, enough for me to make a call. I don't know, I think either way its marginal. As mtdesmoines mentioned, if we're behind we have no outs which is a huge factor.

How do we take our equity vs UTG and the equity vs SB and work out if we have sufficient pot odds to call? The split pot is what is confusing me.

To make it simple:

Player 1 - 50% equity
Player 2 - 30% equity
Player 3 - 20% equity

Player 1 has 5$ invested (and covers)
Player 2 goes all in for $20
Player 3 goes all in for $40

So a call would mean that his return = [(20*3)*(0.5)] (MAIN POT) + [(40-20)*2*(0.5/(0.5+0.2))] (SIDE POT) ~ 57-58 (too lazy to use a calc)

Edit: Actually that's not exactly correct, because your assuming that the 2nd best hand has the same equity ranges, but best method of estimation without knowing the exact hand