ummm I swear $2-4 L was just an experiment

PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9 , A , 4 , 3 .
UTG calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4 , 4 , K (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results in white below:
UTG has 8s 2s 3c 2c (High: full house, fours full of twos).
Hero has 9c As 4s 3d (High: four of a kind, fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.75 BB.

think I just made my name an oxymoron no?

PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 , A , 8 , T .
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4 , T , T (5 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP folds, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J (3 players)
Hero checks, BB folds, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has 9h Ad 8h Th (High: full house, tens full of nines).
CO has 4h 5c 4d 6s (High: full house, fours full of tens).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.50 BB.

So how have you adjusted your strategy, if at all, to the limit structure? If I recall correctly, Hwang advocates for a wider hand selection in FLO8 because you'll never have to face pot-sized bets to chase hands.

I don't think I've made any adjustment as far as the hand selection goes, but I do bet hands dif. You can be more aggresive with draws and not so timid with vulnerable hands as you don't have to worry about bloating the pot and getting pushed off on later streets. Also vice versa as in hitting the nut lo on the turn and check calling then pushing the pot when the board pairs on the end to rep the boat or flush if suit card etc. obv. doesn't work like it does in PL. I think hand selection has more to do with amount of players more than it does PL or FL imho and I've been at the 6 max for awhile

I would imagine that FL play is more straightforward than PL because you can't rely on stealing moves with pot-sized bets (e.g., the PF raise followed by the pot-CB, or pot-betting a lock on one-half to try to bluff someone off the other half). Would it be fair to say that FLO8 is much more about value betting than PLO8?

I would say that is a "fair" statement

Not sure what the quotes and smiley emoticon are intended to convey, but maybe I should give FLO8 a try. It might be a better fit for my natural playing style than PLO8.

I find it more fun to play full ring like it's 6max . It's fun to take money from people who think you *need* the nuts in full ring.



I'd like to take the CO and stick his nose into those last two lines and demand he tell me why those two are related. Even in 6max, that's horrible.

IN POSITION. Put that on a stick-it and place it above your monitor. I know I forget all the time lol. And when pots are multiway and players are playing correctly (big step of faith, i know) the betting and re-raising still makes chasing a rough task. It's far better to be drawing both high and low, because there's almost 0 implied odds. You want multiple ways to get a nice chunk of big pots, and scooping is just happiness personified. It's not pl where you can get a sneaky draw paid off on the end, so you really want to be the one either with a made high preventing draws, or drawing all over the place for both sides of the pot. Or you want to get it heads up and just bluff the hell out of someone/take someone married to AAxx to valuetown.

Easiest way to say it: picture a table full of nine people making that above statement, and get out the slide ruler and protracter and try and figure out the best way to take their money.

you build a little device that just keeps hitting the bet and raise button over and over again while you go off and take a nap?

(actually, i think the trick is to be aggressive on early streets to give the illusion of being a maniac while turning into a calling station on the turn and river).

Tried .10-.20 FL tonight and got very annoyed when my nut low got counterfeited twice. When I looked at the HUD stats around the table they all looked virtually identical: VP of about 50% and PFR of 0. Talk about loose-passive.

Oh, I still only play 30% of the hands, depending on the situation around me and my read on the table. You can't go completely bat$#!r at a 10man table. And it's more of a "check behind" station, really, if I need to see a card.



Wow. That brings back memories. I used to put up 3 or 4 tables of .25/.50 FL back when I started playing o8b, and my goodness those tables were passive and timid. Lots of scared money, amazingly enough.

It was my way of saying not sure if I totally agree with the statement, but I don't necessarily disagree with it either. When I was playing a lot of fixed limit b4 deciding to play micro PL an NL o8 tables I had ez success at .05-.10 and .10-.20 stakes then stalled out at .25-.50 and .50-1. I think because players were worse at the bottom of the small limits and as we went up players still wouldn't fold to raises preflop but seemed to be able to get away "better" later in the hands if that makes any sense. It seems as i went up in stakes and down to 6 max playing position, reraising preflop, and isolation moves in general just tend to work better. IMO FWIW

+1 this seems to be working well for me as well. you keep firing when you got it and people pay you off and when you don't people seem to slow down like they are almost afraid of u raising their bets and you can slow down right behind. I've been raising just about every hand I choose to play from UTG to the button preflop. (occasional in the blinds if there are a lot of folds to me)

Okay, walk me through this...

1) you raise a high % of the hands you play and bet/raise the flop, which gives people the impression that you're a maniac
2) people become more willing to mix it up with you when they think you're raising a wide range
3) because of your aggression people are more likely to check to you on later streets, which means you can check behind for free cards if you haven't hit yet
4) when you do hit you can keep betting in position or go into check-call mode OOP to feign weakness

Does that sum it up?

yep sounds good to me

heads up I guess I'll raise bet bet and bet again

PokerStars 1/2 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A , 3 , Q , K .
4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) J , 7 , K (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (5 BB) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Ad 3c Qc Kc (Low: 8, 7, 6, 3, A | High: one pair, kings).
SB has 7h Qh Qd 4d (High: one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 7 BB.

one more very important thing - when you check oop people will think that you are weaker than people usually are than when they check in that situation due to the fact that you are so aggressive so often. so on the turn try to checkraise the pot when bet/bet won't get all the money in.

although i noticed last night that people are finally catching on that i do this a lot, so im gonna have to switch a little.

Frig poker can be frustrating when the cards don`t come your way. Had 2 PLO8 tables open along with a .05-.10 FLO8 table and it was a session full of sets getting outdrawn, single-suited flops when I didn`t hold those suits, and nut lows getting quartered. That, and completely whiffing altogether. Not enjoying poker a whole lot these days.

Stop making sets in pots with big fields still in the hand, and playing hands that make weaker sets. Makes your life a lot easier.

Do what I do: Fire up pokerstars. Load up 1/2 horse, 2/4 o8b, a ten cent 360 man nlhe turbo, a ten cent 240 man plo turbo, a 2.20 180 turbo, a 4.40, and then pop open a Corona. Good times.

Above all, remember: it's a game. We try and make money at it, but it needs to be a bit fun. Thats why I'll duck out of Horse at times, because Stud hi and lhe are just stressfull to me if I'm not in the right frame of mind. Those ten cent turbos are an awesome way to blow off steam and giggle at the madness going on around it. It's quite theraputic.

And breaking even having 6 different games/limits/formats going at once feels like winning the world series. It's all about perspective.

Start a stake thread in general poker and make 10 people play the dollar razz mtt. Spread the pain. That was another trick I used to pull all the time to get off of tilt. Although staking used to be my biggest leak. so meh..

LMFAO! Awesome!

hang in there jmbreslin. I was on a huge downswing when I first switched my $ from AP to Starz ended up losing almost half my roll and grinding for a couple of months just to get back close to even. Then cashed out half my roll and dropped limits. Now I've started going back up and have doubled my roll in the last 12 sessions so it comes back around. Just keep playing solid and +EV results will happen for you!

I claim shenanigans!

PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J , K , 3 , 4 .
2 folds, Button raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q , Q , A (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button bets, Hero raises, BB folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. Hero wins 5 BB.

I know, I know, I just feel lost at the tables these days. I'm not even on a downswing, just one long 2.5 month sideways swing. Several times I've bounced back up to my highest bankroll point only to fall back again. Just can't break through. I decided last night to focus on O8 cash and nothing else, but it seems like such a damn waste of time to buy in for $20 on a few tables, play 1.5 hours, and lose $3. I have to keep reminding myself that this is a long term thing and I'm not in a rush.

Okay, I know it's limit and you're getting an SB discount but where do you expect to go with this hand?

being aggresive makes catching hands like this sooooo much sweeter


PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2 , A , J , A .
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) K , 6 , 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) K (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Results in white below:
BB has Qd 2s 4c 8c (Low: 8, 7, 6, 4, 2 | High: two pair, kings and fours).
Hero has 2d Ac Jh Ah (Low: 7, 6, 4, 2, A | High: two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.25 BB.

the river gin card I didn't even need

PokerStars 1/2 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4 , 3 , A , A . MP posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, MP (poster) raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, SB calls, BB calls, MP caps, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) Q , 5 , A (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, MP calls.

Turn: (11 BB) J (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB folds, MP calls.

River: (15 BB) 2 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets, MP calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below:
MP has Qc Ah 3s Tc (High: two pair, aces and queens).
Hero has 4c 3h As Ad (Low: 5, 4, 3, 2, A | High: straight, five high).
Outcome: Hero wins 17 BB.

I got 2 lo 2 high 3 handed and I had yet to see the guy raise and showdown a hand that didn't have A2 in it. I quit multitabling and have been really trying to focus in on betting patterns and tendencies while I play. It was loose, but honestly I was just looking for a high only flop or a lo flop with an A,2 or both in it.

Aren't these contradictory? If your read tells you he's likely raising A2, calling the raise w/ 34 hoping to hit an A, 2 or both doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. On the other side your high potential also isn't great with 3 clubs and KJo. I can see limping in position or completing/checking in the blinds, but I'm not big on calling a raise OOP with this.

Why is it that when I play hands just like this, my villain has KT for the turned straight and I don't improve on the river but you find guys overplaying 2P? (sorry, just a bit more venting)

the more you push and push guys play back with less and less

I didn't care what I hit I was just looking for a flop I thought didn't hit him and maybe hit me (still contradictory? sigh I am an oxymoron!)

repping the O8 people on the WSOP fantasy picks leader board

It's actually not that contradictory if you look at possible outcomes. You have clubs, you're looking for a high flop, and any high board without an ace gives you an excellent shot at the best high hand.

If an ace falls, suddenly you are likely on the better low draw. Your position does stink, but you also get the first chance to fire at the flop, and someone skittish (you'll meet many of them) won't like being called by someone OOP who fires into the flop like that and takes the play away from them. Risking one big bet to take blinds has become a complete mess in there eyes, and if they don't connect solidly with the flop (happens an awful lot) you can profit greatly over time.

It's the same concept that makes re-stealing late in NLHE tourneys so profitable: Risking 200 chips to steal 150 in blinds and antres isn't as lucrative as riskin 550 to steal 350 in blinds and ante when the oringinal raiser's range for calling that re-steal is... so.... small.. if stacks are relatively deep. And if you are playing as the original raiser, even the prospect of getting your raise flatted sucks: you have to CB any flop, or, if they are OOP, they can put you to the test before you even act. And if you got AJ and the flop is T96, who's range is that flop likely hitting?

Winning an o8b hand in showdown isn't the easist thing in the world. Hittting boards happens, but hitting them squarely is rare, and being the bettor is almost without fail the place to be.

I always play o8b under the mantra "Can my hand beat KT94?" at lower limits. Because that's what you are ALWAYS facing, I swear. lol. The key is to have 4 tables open, so you can go up against four players with KT94 and win 2-3 of them. Limit games are all about the long run.

Hell, just today I was rereading supersystem, and Mike Caro's quote: "If you show big profit by calling on the river, you aren't calling enough!".. Couple that with "Money saved and money earned are the same thing.", and that's some interesting spin to put on limit. I am a selective caller, mainly only when lows/draws don't hit on the river, and I'm certain I still don't call nearly enough despite my "profit". And hell, anyway you can spin folding as "earning money" always gets my attention. I "earn" a ton of money in Stud Hi preflop, in that case

Did I say this game was hard?

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4, 2, J, T.
Hero calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 3, 6, 7 (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4 BB) A (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (10 BB) 5 (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Results:
SB has 9d 2s 5s 3c (Low: 6, 5, 3, 2, A | High: two pair, fives and threes).
Hero has 4s 2h Jc Th (Low: 5, 4, 3, 2, A | High: straight, seven high).
Outcome: Hero wins 14 BB.

nice to see you post a winning hand!

I flopped a straight flush!!! oh... wait... crap..

PokerStars Game #17951327855: HORSE (Omaha Hi/Lo Limit, $0.50/$1.00) - 2008/06/06 - 07:53:35 (ET)
Table 'Ganymede' 8-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Capt_Christy ($3.60 in chips)
Seat 2: Tiana00 ($36.40 in chips)
Seat 5: Cappy37 ($29.70 in chips)
Seat 6: mg51 ($20 in chips)
Seat 7: riotejopt ($21 in chips)
Seat 8: Pauly P7 ($15.55 in chips)
Capt_Christy: posts small blind $0.25
Tiana00: posts big blind $0.50
mg51: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Cappy37 [3d 4d 9h 5d]
Cappy37: calls $0.50
mg51: checks
riotejopt: calls $0.50
Pauly P7: folds
Capt_Christy: calls $0.25
Tiana00: checks
*** FLOP *** [2d Ad 9s]
Capt_Christy: checks
Tiana00: bets $0.50
TheBlues48 joins the table at seat #4
Cappy37: calls $0.50
mg51: calls $0.50
riotejopt: raises $0.50 to $1
Capt_Christy said, "what a suck out"
Capt_Christy: folds
Tiana00: calls $0.50
Cappy37: raises $0.50 to $1.50
mg51: calls $1
riotejopt: raises $0.50 to $2
Betting is capped
Tiana00: calls $1
Cappy37: calls $0.50
mg51: calls $0.50
*** TURN *** [2d Ad 9s] [6s]
Tiana00: checks
Cappy37: bets $1
mg51: calls $1
riotejopt: raises $1 to $2
Tiana00: calls $2
Cappy37: calls $1
mg51: calls $1
*** RIVER *** [2d Ad 9s 6s] [Td]
Tiana00: checks
Cappy37: bets $1
mg51: calls $1
riotejopt: calls $1
Tiana00: raises $1 to $2
Cappy37: calls $1
mg51: calls $1
riotejopt: calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Tiana00: shows [4c Qd Ks 6d] (HI: a flush, Ace high)
Cappy37: shows [3d 4d 9h 5d] (HI: a flush, Ace high - lower cards; LO: 6,4,3,2,A)
mg51: shows [3c 9d Jc 4s] (HI: a pair of Nines; LO: 6,4,3,2,A)
riotejopt: mucks hand
Tiana00 collected $13 from pot
Cappy37 collected $6.50 from pot
mg51 collected $6.50 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $26.50 | Rake $0.50
Board [2d Ad 9s 6s Td]
Seat 1: Capt_Christy (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Tiana00 (big blind) showed [4c Qd Ks 6d] and won ($13) with HI: a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: Cappy37 showed [3d 4d 9h 5d] and won ($6.50) with HI: a flush, Ace high; LO: 6,4,3,2,A
Seat 6: mg51 showed [3c 9d Jc 4s] and won ($6.50) with HI: a pair of Nines; LO: 6,4,3,2,A
Seat 7: riotejopt mucked [5h As 2s Js]
Seat 8: Pauly P7 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Actually, I'm posting this because FTR is now officially 50/50 in actually converting my hands. Anyone use another converter that works well for o8b?

Yeah, unfortunately I gave it all back a bit later when I got outdrawn on the river twice and quartered once.

One particuarly frustrating hand: I see the flop with 2345, flop comes 267 with 2 diamonds (I didn't have any), I think to myself "let's see a low card, virtually any low card..." turn is the 6d...."except that one!"

Buy in for the session: $4
Cash out: $4.02

Whoopee!

u could get 2 tootsie rolls for that! lol

u think I'm loose preflop check this dnky out. Me and others took his whole stack in about 4 orbits (his name is 333times ;-)

PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K , A , 2 , J .
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9 , 5 , Q (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 7 (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 4 (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, BB folds, MP calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Results in white below:
MP has 6c Jd Jh 9c (High: one pair, jacks).
Hero has Ks Ad 2c Js (Low: 7, 5, 4, 2, A | High: high card, ace).
Outcome: MP wins 4.12 BB. Hero wins 4.12 BB.

bad beat and good vibes almost never gives problems.

Holy hell, I'm starting to wonder if it's even possible to make money at this game. How the hell to I avoid a mess like this?

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Omaha/8 (10 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9, 2, A, 6. MP3 posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, MP3 (poster) calls, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 6, 4, 3 (6 players)
atom(o)pulse calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO raises, Button calls, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (16.25 BB) K (6 players)
UTG checks, atom(o)pulse checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button calls, atom(o)pulse folds, Hero calls.

River: (24.25 BB) J (5 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero caps, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 40.25 BB

Results:
UTG+1 has Ad 2c Kh 5h
Hero has 9d 2d As 6s [lost to the higher flush and split the nut low 3 ways]
MP3 has 5d 3c Jh Td (High: flush, king high).
CO has Ah Ks Qd 2h (Low: 6, 4, 3, 2, A | High: flush, king high).
Outcome: CO wins 40.25 BB.

Okay, someone clearly hates me.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Omaha/8 (10 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, A, 3, 2. MP3 posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 (poster) checks, atom(o)pulse calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (11 SB) A, 2, K (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, SB folds, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

Turn: (7 BB) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls. [totally tilting at this point]

This kind of thing has been happening to me over, and over, and over again. If it's not high hands getting outdrawn or big draws missing, it's lows getting counterfeited. Ride it out, just ride it out...

lol. That's simply unlucky to get 1/6th of the pot. Your getting 1/4 of a bloated pot at worst in most situations, and have the nut low and a nine-high flush isn't the worst spot to be. I also like your PF raise with two FDs and nut low w/ cf protection. Keep it up man, the game is a bit swingy.



lol wow. I assure you that happens to me all the time. Think of it this way: you have 6 outs on that river to win the high half, and likely any of 20 cards (5, 6, 7, or 8) is going to still win you the low portion. That's 26 of 44 unseen cards that give you a portion of this pot. This isn't the worst spot to find yourself in.

is being down about $600 in 2/4 fixed limit over like 2500 hands really really really bad?

im trying very hard to learn limit and im having a very hard time.

missing bets, betting the turn and havinvg to call the raise because i have outs, all sorts of stuff.

although, every big draw i've had where i got raise after raise in multiway missed, usually ending up with the flush comeing and pairing the board and me paying off a bet.

and every set has gotten cracked (and i aint talking about against monster wrap flush draws)

one mistake that i have noticed i make a lot is bluff raising the river when i know they don't have enough to call. naturally i am always right and they call every time with middle pair. im trying to tell myself to stop doing it but its tough.

i dunno, is it safe to attribute some of that to bad luck and maybe im not horrible ive just had a very rough run of cards?

or is losing that much that fast just mean that i suck and have a lot of work to do?

Wow. check-raising river is bad. check-folding rivers allows you check-call and get paid on rivers when they don't have enough to call. I make a lot of my money that way.

Bad luck over 6000 hands happens. I wouldn't dwell on it. Get that river bluffing out of your artillery and you'll be fine. Variance swings both ways.

Betting turn is usually +EV.. Make sure you aren't going crazy betting out on flops with two low cards on it when you are going high. You'll charge them on the turn plenty when the board hits high again.

Always be aware of game selection. If you are playing on a site that doesn't have a ton of game selection, there may not be enough producers. The funny thing about o8b is: you need the producers, or it's just not going to work. I stopped playing Horse on stars for a long time once I realized I was playing against a constant field of similar faces who were marginally good to excellent.

Switch up a bit and play some stud8 or Razz (at a slightly lower limit)for a while and then start again fresh. Sometimes we don't need a break from poker, we just need a break from *that effin' game*.

Of course, what do I know. I play $2/$4 all the time (I should stick to $1/$2 dammit!), and a 7.5 buy in downswing would pretty much empty my online bankroll. And yet I sweat when I play $2.20 hold em tournaments. Yeah, what the hell do i know?

And

im actually trying to switch to limit because the games look softer than the pot limit games. im not sure i can beat the 2/4+ pot limit games. i think with a little work i can be beating the 5/10 limit games in a few months.

Exactly! What do you need me for? That river bluffing concept just scares me, if the pot isn't being shoved into my chipstack on the turn, I'm mentally preparing myself for the next hand already. Def. work on that. You don't see faces consistantly enough to be making -EV moves to get paid off in later hands. And if you have enough players that are around you that often to do that and you still aren't winning, you need to stop playing with those guys.

don't you play one of those funky sites, anyways? Like UB or Cake or something wild like that? I play straight Stars, so my advice for battling Stars donks may not apply. You may need to be betting middle pair for value on rivers, i dunno.

nope FT exclusively.