of course it's possible, but what's the limit where people can actually start making enough money to make a living with it?

also wheres the best source of info on SNG-math? in a p5s interview some player brought up this example:



can someone explain that? AKo would only be a -EV (and still about break even cEV) call against the SB, right? (since he's the only one who could bust us)? or is AKo still a -EV call if a shortstack pushes with the same range?


greetings,
travis

"AKo would only be a -EV (and still about break even cEV) call against the SB, right?"

yes

"or is AKo still a -EV call if a shortstack pushes with the same range?"

its instacall. download SNGEGT, free program and it does all the math for you.

I think I'd go crazy trying to make a living by playing STTs.

See sheets' videos on PXF

AK is -$EV against a big stack. It's of course +cEV, but -$EV.

Against a short stack it's +$EV and +cEV


I don't know if it's possible to make a living with STTs anymore. The quality of play is so much higher these days (even at the lower levels) that I think it's extrememly difficult to maintain a ROI of 10% or more. MTTs and cash are much easier to make a living at.

AKo isn't crushing any two cards enough to justify the fact that when you lose your equity will be zero. If it was against one of the shortstacks it would be different because your equity when you lost would not be zero.

Here is the math: (using http://www.chillin411.com/icmcalc.php)

I'm using payouts from a $1.20, but it doesn't make any difference because the payout structure is the same for all 9 player STTs

Our current equity is $2.6151. If we double up through the SB our equity will be $3.6103.

AK is 65.32% against any two cards.

So: (0.6532 * 3.6103) + (0.3468 * 0) = $2.358052

If you were already in the money it would be completely different, since your equity when you lose would be third place money (instead of zero).

It depends on what "making a living" means...if $20-$30/hour is a living, I think it can be done in the $30+3s.

The problem with making a living on MTTs is the huge variance. There are definitely guys doing it, primarily in the $100 buy ins, where Ive OPRd a few who are consistently cashing.

I think cash games are still the way to grind it out if youve got the patience.

I'll just comment on making a living playing STTs. I tried it for awhile, when I was almost broke from the variance of MTTs, but I quickly got bored with it. It's more like work than playing poker. If you are 6-15 tabling, which I assume you would be, it's so mechanical that it's not even fun. There is no other glory in poker like that of winning an MTT. When you play SNGs and become an expert, there is always a correct play, there is never any discussion or shades of gray. For me that is too boring. I enjoy making reads and acting on them, and getting to the final table.

After awhile, I just built up a bigger roll for MTTs so that I could handle the swings.

QFT, Single table SNGs bore the shit out of me, it's more like blackjack than poker.

I've noticed a big difference between the $1.20's and $3.40 turbos on the one hand, and the $5.50's on the other hand. It seems like everyone at $5.50 has read about the tight-early SnG strategy so you can't sit back and wait for the fish to die off like you can at the lower levels. I've just started playing $5.50's again after taking a long break and I was shocked when the first hand was folded around to me in the SB. That's unheard of at the micro limits. A few hands later I made a standard open raise w/ AA in EP and everyone folded. The level of tightness and patience was startling after spending so much time playing $3.40 turbos lately. I started thinking to myself, "what the hell do I have to do to make money in these?"

Yeah, I can't play STTs for very long before I get antsy for something different. I've added 45-man turbos and PLO to my game selection to make my poker playing at bit more interesting.

They still make terrible calls and pushes. ICM is everything in SNGs and luckily they know nothing about it.

Open raise every pot and swipe the blinds until they wake up, then go back to your usual game.

i like the 45 mans. i dont find making it deep in those that much harder or time consuming than cashing in a 9 man these days.

im playing stts pretty exclusively at the moment, and if i'm feeling like i can't take playing another one i either a) quit or play a cheap MTT

I'm mostly playing sngs at the moment, and I did it full time for a few months over the summer and I didn't find it too boring. But I guess I can't do it for more than a few hours, and I definately need to play a few mtts now and then. (plus I have a much better record in mtts I think)

One thing is that playing so many turbos has totally thrown off my deepstacked play. Whenever I have the nuts in the first few levels I just think 'man can't I shove already?' I'm going to have to go and learn cash or something soon I think.

right now I am playing mostly 6man ultra turbos and turbos depending on which site im playing on. I started out at the 2$ level then 5s now 10s and im starting to throw in some 20s. They are very easy to beat and I do find it boring, but I only play about an hour or two a day.