Brett Favre to Retire



Does this call for congratulations or commiserations DDIDM?

well HIZZAH HIZZAH!!!

Wow...I'm really shocked. Never thought he would retire after last season.

I wonder if he made his final decision when Green Bay didn't get Moss.

I think that had to be a factor.. He says that if he didn't win a superbowl the season would be a failure, since they didn't get Moss, I think he probably felt that they didn't have a chance at winning it.

Not sure if I'm full convinced he's done though..

His last pass was an INT. That's pretty indicative of his career.

I don't know who you are, but I like you.


Anyone who sees Brett favre's limitations as a qb is a friend of mine.

He was a great QB, you can't take that away from him, but it's ridiculous to consider him in the Top 3 QBs of all time..

He is probably one of the greatest figures to the game, he was an iron man and made the game exciting, but he was nowhere near in the class of Elway and those QBs.

yeah, on a scale of 1-100, and 80 is hall of fame, great caliber QB, farve is about a 86? Great, but not the untouchable messiah figure that many people make him out to be. In terms of qb's I'd want with my team down by 5 with 2 minutes to go? Favre's about a 60.

Exactly.. Lets face it, if it wasn't for Favre, the Packers would probably be in the Superbowl.. He cost them that game, and he also cost them that game against the Eagles in the playoffs a while back..

Elway>Favre
Montana>Favre
Staubach>Favre
Bradshaw>Favre
Brady>Favre
Manning>Favre
Aikman>Favre

I'm a big Dallas fan but I don't know if I take Aikman over Farve. I might take Staubach over him.

Ugh.. Didn't mean to put Aikman in there.. Aikman had a great team around him.. He was a GOOD quarterback, with a great team.

I have an absolutely irrational hatred for Brett Farve.

Spell your own damn name right, asshole.

Both.

They weren't going to sneak up on anyone again this year..I think, with Favre, they'd have been *lucky* to get 12-4/11-5 this year with a slightly tougher/duplicate SOS as they had last year.

There's some holes on that team and I think, as a Green Bay fan, more than anything, I'm relieved that he didn't leave on a low note..that performance in the NFC championship game was an off note, but that season was pretty magical. 3 years ago he had his worst year ever and then to spring back to life.. yeah. He's pretty good.



No, I don't think this had much to do with it at all. He was VERY happy with that receiving corps. I think he's just tired and wants to go hang out in Hattiesburg for the rest of his days. The kind of weight on his shoulders going into last year's NFC Championship game, coupled with the disappointment of losing had to be brutal.



This is LOL.



Then you don't like winning games.



No on the last two, iffy on Staubach. Elway, meh..his career was virtually the same as Favre's, if you want to be completely honest.

LOL no one has bigger homer goggles than you do about teams and people you like.. LOL at Elway and Favre's career being the same.

You're right. Favre's was better.

Also: I disagree that I'm a homer. It's pretty widely held that Brett Favre is one of the top quarterbacks to ever play the game.

Meh... I think Elway is the best QB of all time, AINEC....

The teams he had in the 80's were HIS teams. They weren't getting to the superbowl because they were surrounded by great talent and Elway had a strong receiving core... It was all Elway, he was a guy you'd go to with 2 min left with your team is down by 4..

Favre

-3-Time AP MVP(Most Ever)
-9 Time Pro Bowler
-6 Time All-Pro
-NFL 1990's All Decade Team
-Most consecutive starts by a quarterback, 253(275 including playoffs)
-Most wins by a starting quarterback (NFL) regular season career: 160
-Most career passing touchdowns: 442 [66][67]
-Most career passing yards: 61,655
-Most career pass completions: 5,377
-Most career interceptions thrown: 288
-Most career games with at least three touchdowns: 63
-Playoffs; Favre stands behind only Joe Montana in pass completions, passing touchdowns, passing yards and passing attempts.
- With 38 "come-from-behind" 4th quarter wins & 2 more overtime victories, Brett Favre is the Green Bay Packers record holder and second only to John Elway's 47 4th quarter or OT "come-back wins", in NFL history.
-2 Super Bowl Appearances, 1 Super Bowl Championship

Courtesy of Wikipedia.

Please top that.

None of those things matters. If you seriously would want favre as your qb over elway with 2 minutes left, and you're down by 6, you're on drugs. Favre has choked in more big games than any other "legend" quarterback, AINEC.

Well, except for peyton manning, I guess.

I was really just jousting with BigD when I said that Favre was better.

IMO, Elway's one of the top 5 QBs to play the game..but he gets a lot of credit for a lot of nothing in certain areas. He never even touches the Super Bowl trophy without Terrell Davis. Favre carried his teams each and every year.

Rod Smith & Terrell Davis > Ahman Green & Sterling Sharpe

I'm not taking anything away from Favre... I guess I base my decisions of how many rings they got on their fingers.. Favre would trade everyone of those records in if he could have as many rings as Montana or Brady..

Yes, those numbers are amazing, but only 1 superbowl was produced out of those great numbers...

I didn't say I would choose him over Elway down by 6 with 2 minutes, mouth breather. I implied you were awful for rating him a 60/100 in that category when he's 2nd only to Elway in come from behind wins, all time.

I thought that you, of all people, could read critically.

yeah but elway completely carried his 80's teams. He made 3 superbowls, with a terrible running game and a coach who wanted to establish the run and wouldn't ever let elway lose until they needed to comback in the 4 quarter.

And don't sell sterling sharpe short, he would have made the hall of fame, if he wouldn't have gotten hurt, I think. He was great.

Yup..and it's a shame. He played his best ball and had his best teams the same years that Young's 49'ers and Aikman's Cowboys were fighting for the NFC. I think a lot of people forget that no matter how good Favre was, his teams were never elite because of the nature of the Packers. They're publically owned--they can't fork out the ginormous contracts that teams like the Cowboys and 49ers could.

And Favre played in the west coast offense?

You've gotta be a Bears fan.



He was great.

For four years.

Mouth breather? Man, you're taking this favre stuff pretty personal. Take a look at farve's perfomances in Gb's playoff losses since their superbowl, and get back to me. HE chokes. IN big games. All the time.

LOL you're comparing Holgrim's offence to dan reeves? really?

It's a tough discussion to answer really..

It's like saying how many rushing yards would Barry Sanders have if he actually had a decent line.. If he played for the Cowboys or a team like that during his playing years, no one would be touching his rushing records, and he'd probably have rings to show for it.

I think if you stick Favre on the Cowboys or Niners, then yes he would probably have more rings.. But Favre had his opportunities in the late 90's, those were solid Packer teams.

Fair enough.



Holmgren's teams weren't run-oriented..oh okay.

Someone let Matt Hasselbeck know that.



Agreed.

do you even understand the west coast offense? Really? Short passes to the running back are still passes. I'd be shocked if the play selection of green bay under holgrim was any less than 60/40 pass/run.

No, it's not off base. Have you watched farve the last decade? really? How can you forget so many playoff chokes? I will never understand the Favre goggles, I really really won't.

Didn't watch many seahawks games this year, did ya? With Alexander a no-show, they were extremely pass oriented this season. The past few seasons, with an MVP Running back, a great offensive line, and a wide receiving core that lead the league in drops, yes, seattle has run more than pass, untill this season. Shaun was an MVP caliber player till this season, so it, you know, makes sense to use, you know, your MVP caliber player to the maxium. I wish Reeves would have done that in the 80's.

LOL @ Holmgrim.

Holmgrim didn't run a true west coast offense in Green Bay. I'm sorry that you weren't aware of that already. I could provide you with links if you want.



Well, let's take a look..

2007- Last year? Yeah, I suppose losing to the Giants was a choke. That was pretty brutal. I thought they were def. Super Bowl bound. I take some solace in the Giants winning the Super Bowl though.

2006- No playoffs.

• Jan. 9, 2005 - NFC Wild Card - Minnesota 31, Green Bay 17

Moss and Culpepper in their prime @ Minnesota. I guess this is what you're referring to by all those times he choked in the playoffs?

• Jan. 11, 2004 - NFC Divisional - Philadelphia 20, Green Bay 17 OT

Blame this one on Green Bay's defense for giving up the 4th and 26 to McNabb.

• Jan. 4, 2004 - NFC Wild Card - Green Bay 33, Seattle 27

Obv a choke.

• Jan. 4, 2003 - NFC Wild Card - Atlanta 27, Green Bay 7

Atlanta made the Super Bowl that year after upending the Vikings(15-1 in the regular season) and the Packers were just not that good that year.

• Jan. 20, 2002 - NFC Divisional - St. Louis 45, Green Bay 17

Greatest show on turf. Not a choke, just getting blown up by a better team. St. Louis with Kurt Warner, Bruce, Hakim, Faulk and a tough little defense.

• Jan. 13, 2002 - NFC Wild Card - Green Bay 25, San Francisco 15

Another choke job.

• Jan. 25, 1998 - Super Bowl XXXII - Denver 31, Green Bay 24

Yeah..this sucked. Best game I've ever seen, though.

• Jan. 11, 1998 - NFC Championship - Green Bay 23, San Francisco 10

• Jan. 4, 1998 - NFC Divisional - Green Bay 21, Tampa Bay 7


Which of these is a choke in your humble opinion?

Well that would make sense, wouldn't it?

Did the Seahawks go to the Super Bowl on the back of their short passing game or because of Alexander...?

Oh, okay.

You got the intercept and touch down stats for those losses?

Nope..I could probably hunt them down, though, I'd really prefer not to.

I'm truly curious as to which of those losses you think is a choke, or what you even consider a choke.. The only glaring one is the Super Bowl versus the Broncos when they were a *heavy* favorite. And, IMO, you're not a dog against most any team in history with Elway, that O-Line and Terrell Davis on your team.

"Only history can judge me." -George W. Bush & Brett Favre


Edit: They've lost 6 playoff games in the last 10 years, 4 against teams that would go on to win the Super Bowl that year. Just sayin'.

I don't even know what you're arguing here. I never said the seahawks weren't a run oriented team in their prime. But Green Bay was not the Seahawks, and the Holgrim Packers were much more pass oriented because of their talent at wide out and tight end. If anything, you're strengthening my point. Holgrim is a great, hall of fame coach, who maximizes his talent. Dan Reeves was a awful couch who did not maximize the broncos strengths and held elway back.

well, off the top of my head, the six interception play off game comes to mind. I understand why you would prefer not to look up the int/td ratio in those losses, because they are brutally embarrassing.

Where's 2001-1999? Did they not make the playoffs those years? (Honest question.)

Did one of those years have the game where Owens (before he was "T.O.") caught the game-winning TD?

Wasn't that against the Packers? Man, I can't remember anything.

I do remember that was a fantastic game.

Does this mean you can't find the multiple games he choked? I'm not saying he never choked in a big game. I'm saying he didn't do it with the regularity you're claiming(as I count *maybe* two).

That's really my only point. You claim he chokes in big games all the time and can remember one playoff game out of 40 some where he threw six picks..oh okay.

I'd like to also remind you, Favre stands behind only Joe Montana in pass completions, passing touchdowns, passing yards and passing attempts in the playoffs.



For some reason that was left off the list I had(or I just missed it when pasting).

01/03/99 NFC Wild Card Playoff @ San Francisco 49ers L, 27-30

(This isn't even close to a 'choke' game. That was against Young's best 49ers team IN San Francisco.)

After that, they didn't make the playoffs again until 2002.

FU

I think he actually had a late TD drive to give them the lead.

Also, I think the '94 (or '95? Goddamn seasons spanning two calendar years) 49ers was Young's best team.

You think so? That defense in 02 was gnarly. I don't recall the 94/95 team so well(I was 10/11), so I'll defer to you.

#1 offense
#8 defense

I think their defense was considered better than its rank just because they were often involved in blowouts where the defense could play soft. Bryant Young and Dana Stubblefield in the middle, Deion Sanders at the height of his powers (Defensive Player of the Year), Merton Hanks and his ridiculous neck.

Steve Young set the record for QB rating at the time and was league MVP and they scored over 500 points on the season. Plus, Jerry Rice was still good then.

I’m sure this was Young’s best team.



Um, p.s. I like Brett Favre.

Merton Hanks' Neck would be a good name for a fantasy team. I never saw him play at Iowa, but they still ramble on about his hits.

I am surprised he retired. Would not have thought he would have left on such a low note. ( I know it was a magical season but take out one 90 yard pass and Favre was a D+ in that Giants game at best)

I think Favre is in the 2nd tier among greatest QBs of all time with----Manning, Brady, Tarkenton, Aikman, Bradshaw

My first tier----Montana, then Elway, then Unitas, then Marino.




Edit: For fun, third tier: Young, Fouts, Moon, Kelly, Tittle, Starr, Griese (Bob)

I'd agree with your rankings CB, though I think Staubach should be behind Marino (you left him off entirely?!).

I liked Favre for the most part, but the ESPN coverage is a little over the top.

I know very little about Staubach's career.....obviously he belongs, imo, in tier 2 or 3. (from your reaction tier 2 I think)

I knew I forgot a couple QBs....took me 3 full minutes to think of Bart Starr's name.....


as for the ESPN coverage.....Favre was always very media friendly. If you play ball and the media likes you then they will inflate your reputation a tad. If they hate you, your career gets slightly diminished (see: Jim Rice, barry Bonds, etc.)

There's an article on CNNSI.com by Peter King or Dr. Z (the two most overrated football writers today, btw) about how Favre's greatest strengths are what kept him from being supremely great. I didn't necessarily agree with all of it, but it made a lot of sense and is very true in a lot of ways.