Well after spending over 3 hours in line on Saturday to get tickets for games this season I thought it was time to start up the thread. This time though I will put no year on it so I can just use it next year and the years to follow.

The title description is just a play on the 19-0 topic on the Football board for those unaware. I promise not to be an arrogant asshole in this thread. I do not actually believe they will go 162-0. 140-22 maybe...


So getting tickets was pretty hard this year. They actually had to stop selling season and half season tickets a month or so ago because at the rate they were selling there would be no single game tickets left. Sadly other priorities took control over most of our fun cash so we had to settle trying to get 7 games worth of tickets. That didn't work out well. After 3+ hours in line we were only lucky enough to score tickets for 3 games. Luckily though I got the ticket I really wanted and that was to the Dodgers. I am still looking to get more but I didn't have time to really search for tickets to games I didn't have on my list. Seems there are a few games here and there with tickets still available in sections that don't suck and I will head up to Comerica today or tomorrow to get the rest.

Anyway, should be a great season with our lineup. I will get into that more as time permits but till then, feel free to come in and talk Tigers or trash talk.

Detriot Tigers = overrated.

88 wins.

Still 25 more than what the Royals will get.

I would like to hear why you think so.

I would like to hear why you think so.

I assume he is just being the way he always is. He seems to go into many topics spouting off his knowledge and usually ending up wrong. The Pats thread is a good example. Did you ever go back into that Kow and admit you clearly had no clue?

Because good teams are built on pitching, not on just offense.

Verlander is very very good.


Kenny Rogers is getting old and wasn't good at all last year.

Jeremy Bonderman, for ALLLL of his potential, has a career ERA of 4.78...including going above 5 last year.

Dontrelle Willis has regressed significantly the past two years, including a terrible year last year. Now he goes from a light hitting division to a powerhouse division......he'll be lucky to keep an ERA under 4.50....

Nate Robertson is Nate Robertson....not great, not terrible. A true #5 guy.

Their bullpen is nothing special.....is Zumaya gonna get healthy?? Is Todd Jones still the closer??

Their pitching was below league average last year and their offense was already awesome last year....their offense improved some but their pitching has not improved, in fact they were probably worse. Just because Sportscenter says that the Tigers are now super duper awesome because they traded for two big names doesn't mean they are the best. The Indians are the favorites. The Tigers need a LOT of things to go right for their pitching staff to win the division.

I don't even remember what I said in the Pats thread...and if I did say something wrong, how does being wrong one time mean I know nothing??

Lol..really? 25?? You think the Royals will be much worse than last year??? Please explain...I'd love to hear how our superior pitching will make us 6 games worse than last year.

Oh, I see...I predicted the Pats would go 10-6. Guess you are right, based on that one off prediction, it has been proven that I know nothing. Good one.

Do you think you just posted something no one else already knew?

1. Verlander is a beast. No question.

2. Rogers was no good last year? Duh. He didn't play almost the entire season last year. Hard to play good when on the bench. He was out then came back and pitched one good game and injured himself and then was back on IR after a few bad outings. Good observation there. lol

3. Nate is as you said a good #5 guy. The guy gets no run support whatsoever. He lost many 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 games the last two seasons that it is just pathetic.

4. I don't know Dontrell since I never paid attention to the Marlins.

5. Bonederman is my greatest fear. You never know what you are going to get. Has all the potential to be the ace of this team but cannot remain consistent to save his life. I am sure he will have a great first half of the season and than...well we just have to wait and see.

6. Zumaya thinks he will be back mid-season. No rush imo. He was amazing two seasons ago but last year well before he injured himself mid season he was lackluster and no where close to the Zoom Zoom he was the year before. I don't expect him to ever be like he was 2 seasons ago.

7. Bullpen: It is a but ugly. But to be fair you can't look at last season as the barometer. Many of our RP'ers were doing things they normally would not do and thus it got ugly fast. Players like Girilli are 1-2 inning relievers, last year because of injuries and starting pitching that could only go 5 he was asked to pitch 3-4 innings and that made him look worse than he really is. Miner as well. Brydak was solid and should be again this year. Jones is Jones. I think they dropped the ball on not getting Cordero or Dotel or well, anyone other than Jones.

So yeah, we are pretty much in agreement here. I never yet posted my thoughts on the team and the pitching would have been the sore spot for sure. The lineup and the bench are outstanding and one of the best in the MLB right now.

Everything you posted has been talked about each and every afternoon on the radio the last two weeks. We are very well aware of what this team is about. Still going to be a fun season.


Thanks for proving my point. Really? No, I think the Royal will easily win more than 63 games. I would put money on it. I was just poking back like you poked me. Seriously, learn how to not take this shit so seriously.



Did I say you know nothing? I don't think I did. Let me check....Nope. I just pointed out that you have a history of going into sports topics and trying to start shit and that sometimes you are wrong. So am I. So are some of the experts on TV or in the newspapers. I was just taking a little stab at you because I know that is how you like to play. You were wrong about the pats but you were pretty adamant about giving it to Flush in that topic. You know you were trying to get him riled up, it's what you like to do. Anyone can go into a topic and see you having heated discussions about how much knowledge you think you have and how wrong the other person is. Do you think I am new to FCP? Nope.

Trouble is in this topic I never made any real outlandish claims. My topic is a parody of flushs topic. Do I think the Tigers will go 162-0? Obviously not. And my 120 was clearly a joke as well. But they will win more than 88 games. 100? Don't know. But over 90 for sure. But unlike you, I don't claim to know everything. Either way, at least we will still be better than the Royals, like most of the MLB. Sorry, I had to take that jab because I enjoy watching you get all pissy.

Lol...just because I type alot doesn't mean I'm all pissy...but I guess if that's what you think...


1. Kenny Rogers threw 63 innings. That's hardly "one good game and then a few bad outings." I didn't say he threw a full year, but he had a bad year and he's old.

2. Dontrelle Willis is the guy who had an above 5 ERA while facing light hitting teams. Now he is your #3 starter?? Oops.

3. Bonderman has under-produced every year he's been in the bigs now. Why will it change? Maybe it will...but I wouldn't count on it.

4. Nate Robertson is what he is. We agree. Average at best.

By my count, you have one reliable starter, two average at best starters (Bonderman and Robertson) and two big question marks. Everyone is predicting the Tigers will be some monster unstoppable team. I say they are overhyped and will thus be overrated. They will be a good team, but not a great team. Their starting rotation is questionable and their bullpen is worse. Zumaya is coming back in mid season?? I thought that was the story last year as well. He's a question mark. Todd Jones is a question mark. Pretty much every arm in the entire staff outside of Verlander is a question mark. That's all. There is NO way you can say they will win "90 for sure." They had a very good offense last year and only won 88. Their offense is a little better, but so is the entire AL.



And you said I was clueless based on one wrong prediction in the Pats thread, so I poked back. Deal with it.

Dontrelle Willis ERA by age -

21 - 3.30
22 - 4.02
23 - 2.63
24 - 3.87
25 - 5.17

I think it's a little disingenuous to call him the guy with the above 5 ERA. Also, doesn't switching leagues usually help a pitcher early on? That being said, he's no ace, but I think he's just fine as a #3 guy.

Also, most of the predictions I've seen still have the Indians on top of the Central. The stuff about the Tigers being unstoppable is about how many runs they will score this year and they really should have a great offense.

Well at least we are talking baseball and that is good with me. And before I go point by point I would like to say that I do all of this with a friendly smile on my face. I am just playing with ya, so...deal with it?

1. Rogers. Okay if we want to get specific. He had major surgery to repair a blood clot in his shoulder I believe. Came back in what I always felt was too soon and pitched 3 decent games. Then fell off hard the next..what 7 or 8 times? Sorry for not being specific. 3-4 with a 4.43 era and essentially injured for the majority of his starts as it turned out. Either way, I can't personally look at that situation last year and then compare it to previous years where he was healthy and immediately decide he is old and bad. You can cause that is your opinion, but I disagree with it.

2. Dontrelle. I am sensing a pattern here. You only look at last years stats to form your opinions I see. I also see someone who has won 20 games in a season and I see someone who has 68 wins and an under 4 ERA in his career. But I guess only previous seasons stats mean anything. Also the rotation is Verlander, Bondo, Rogers, Willis, Robertson the last I saw.

3. No argument there.

4. We agree.

The rest: I agreed that our sore spot is pitching and that the bullpen is a mess. Here, let me get you a few quotes...

which was my typo way of saying, It is butt ugly



So yeah, I think 90 is not unrealistic.

It's also a lot more than just a little better hitting, we also took care of a couple problems defensively that have cost us runs in the past. Guillen was a error whore at SS and now with Renteria we put him on SS and move Guillen to 1st which is better for his legs which should also help his hitting as if he needed to hit better. We essentially had no 1st baseman last year so now we can put Thames back in RF along with Jones and that should help out defensively. We lost a solid 3rd baseman but in reality the bat he comes with is just sick. So yeah, 2 more, 10 more wins than last year is not outrageous. Maybe if you watched all 162 games as I did you would see that more clearly.

At least we will start off 3-0. :wink:

Tigers are coming out of the central, obv

I think AL pitchers going to the NL have had much more success than vice versa. I expect Santana to clinch the NL Cy by July 15. But the AL is a better hitters league so NL pitchers often struggle. It's a big year for Willis to determine his future.

He has looked pretty good so far in spring training. Not that you can actually make any serious determination of how good a pitcher may be based on ST, but he has looked pretty solid.

For fun...

Willis: 7.1 innings, 7 hits, 7 SO 2ER 5BB 2.45ERA

he's definitely high risk-high reward.

Yeah. He is better than what we had though with the exception of Jurgens. I don't think Miller is going to be the superstar we thought he was going to be. Not until he learns a second pitch at least. He should be ok in Florida though. I still believe our starting pitching will be ok but our bullpen is just scary right now. They were having a discussion yesterday morning on the radio asking people to call in and tell then what level of defcon was the tigers bullpen at. I wanted to call in and say that the nukes were shot at us hours ago.

On the Willis point, you are using wins to define how good a pitcher is??? Uhhh..no. I am not saying Willis sucks because he had one bad year, but he IS coming off a terrible year and is moving into a league with WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better hitting. He ain't gonna get to stack up the K's against the Washington Nationals over and over....he's gonna be getting shelled by the Indians and White Sox and Red Sox and Yankees and Angels.....

Anyways, the Tigers have one real good pitcher in their starting rotation and then a bunch of question marks. Willis might struggle or might bounce back. Rogers is old and might struggle or might be decent. Robertson might be average again or might get worse. Bonderman might finally break through, or might keep on struggling to keep a sub 4.80 ERA. That's a lot of mights for the supposed "AL favorite," and that's not even going into their bullpen.....they won't have Zumaya for how long..'til midseason??? And....my final point...Todd Jones. Done.

The Tigers pitching is a HUGE question mark this year. I'm not saying it's gonna be awful altogether....but to contend in the AL...they are gonna have to have a LOT of things go their way just to keep up with Cleveland......I think the Tigers will be fighting with the BoSox for a wild card spot this year (that's right, I have the Yanks winning the division....)

No, I made a point based on his whole career, with wins and ERA. You based your earlier statement strictly on last year. So, uhhh...no.

Yes, I did base my point on Willis on his previous season. He had a terrible year last year and will now be facing much much much more potent offenses. I didn't say he's done as a pitcher for the rest of his career, I said he's a huge question mark for this year. I think the chances that he struggles are FAR greater than the chances that he wins 17 games and puts up a 3.56 ERA with 194 Ks.......there's a fair chance he'll struggle, there's MORE than a fair chance Rogers struggles, there's a good chance Bonderman puts up his usual 4.80 ERA...and there's a good chance Nate Robertson will do about the same......they have one real good starter and four question marks....and again..their bullpen is nothing worth bragging about....especially considering Zumaya is out until AT LEAST the All-Star Break. So..the point remains the same...considering everyone is pretty much just handing Detroit the division because they made a trade is rediculous..the Tigers are overrated. Will they suck? No..but they won't win 98 games either.

88 or 98. Make up mind.

So a few things going on for the Motown Kitties this week...


Curtis Granderson was hit by a pitch this weekend and has been placed on 15 day DL with a broken (cracked) hand. That sucks. Speculation is that it will be longer but obv just have to wait and see. Word is that Inge might be the starting CF if he doesn't get dealt this week. He made an amazing play in CF yesterday and should do fine.

We signed Cabby to a 8 yr $152mil deal this weekend. Not a bad payday but a lot cheaper than I thought he was going to get. I figured he would be at least $23m/yr but this is fine. 4th highest contract I believe. 8 yrs is a good to see as well.

Bullpen is still a mess.

Starting rotation was announced yesterday:

Verlander
Rogers
Bonderman
Robertson
Willis

and since I was reading this topic over and wanted to make some points regarding some of the willis talk...

While I agree that coming from the NL to the AL is a negative usually, would not coming to a team with the killer lineup Detroit has and the very good defense he will have behind him not count towards something? How many gold glovers did he have playing behind him in Florida? I really don't know, but I will bet 1 or zero. He has gold glovers at C, 2nd, and SS for sure and a future gold glove CF'er. I think he will be fine. I predict he will start slow but finish strong. Sure it's a change and they have been working on him this spring and he is slowly getting there but I have to think his situation here is much better for him than in Florida regardless of the switch from NL to AL.

Having a little bit better defense makes a very minute difference.........and please don't use Gold Gloves to account for how good defensive players are.......Gold Gloves are a joke award given based on reputation as the most important factor. Your manager has already said he's worried about Willis because his delivery is all messed up.......that is a TERRIBLE sign.............the entire pitching staff is a question mark. They could step it up and be decent, or things could fall apart and they could be pretty bad outside of Verlanders........not to say what could happen if the injury bug hits....already two key relievers out for significant time...Rogers is old..........there are legit question marks all over that pitching staff....

Cleveland is the team to beat. Detroit is merely a contender.

You're so abrasive. Did you get beat as a kid or something?

Anyway, we'll see, as the cliche goes, that is why they play the game. I am sure if you are dead on right you will be in here to puff out your chest and remind us all of your vast superior knowledge of all things MLB. But if you are wrong I am sure you won't be seen anywhere near this thread. (smilie face means I am just messing with you so don't go kick a puppy or anything)

What part is abrasive? I can only type words on a keyboard in one way. I am not yelling. I am not insulting you. I am saying the Tigers are massively overhyped and have a lot of legit question marks. Sorry you think that's an insult.

Just today I saw on Cnnsi.com where some "baseball expert" said the Tigers offense was so historically good that it rendered their entire pitching staff irrelevant and that they'd win the AL Central easily and win the World Series. I have never laughed harder...yes, the Tigers are a contender to win it all, but this is just ANOTHER example of so many "experts" and Tigers fans thinking their offense is going to be so good that it doesn't matter what their pitching does whatsoever b/c they will score 8 runs a game and win 110 games this year and sweep the entire playoffs. These guys are setting themselves up for so much disappointment....they could win 91 games this year and win the wild card and be considered a failure relative to this massive hype.

...and again, I don't know what "predictions" you think I am making, I am not saying the Tigers will suck or will miss the playoffs, they are a good team and I think they will take Cleveland to the wire in the AL Central, I just take exception to the fact that everyone wants to hand them the division already based on one trade for one superstar and a question mark of a pitcher.

Steve: I think you're discounting the massive holes in the bullpen far too quickly. I think opposing teams know once you get by the top two or three starters, the Tigers pitching quickly goes to hell.

They're missing their two best reliever (Zumaya and Rodney) and their closer is hoping to fool people into getting out again.

I think there's gonna be a whole ton of 9-7 games for the pussycats this year, many decided in the final three innings.

I agree with Koop that they'll be good, but will be lucky to make the playoffs, either in their division or wildcard. Top 6 team in the AL, though.

...and on ESPN.......they are now saying that behind the BoSox, the Detroit Tigers are candidates to have one of the best starting rotations in baseball.


Yeah....the Detroit Tigers aren't getting overhyped...........

yea are bullpen is so so but with out line up it shuoldn't matter if they give up 1 run or even 2 we should be able to make up for that with the bats and another about our bullpen i saw someone say something about byrdak and i dunno how many people heard or not but they let him go so thats 1 of our lefties gone were now down to seay in the bullpen

There is no offense in the entire world that is good enough to make up for a terrible bullpen on a consistent basis...and on paper, that bullpen isn't "so-so," it is bad...the starting pitching is what I would call "so-so," but that is on paper, a lot can go differently than expected...a lot of things could go right for them in terms of pitching, so we will see. I think the Tigers will get off to a hot start, but then hit a rough patch in July or so..we'll see how their pitching can react to that....no offense is good enough to be great for every single game...there is gonna be a stretch where a lot of guys are slumping or something.....anything can happen.

Steve Phillips just predicted the Tigers to win the WS, said they will have the greatest offense in the history of baseball...and didn't say one word about pitching.

Yeah...the Tigers aren't getting overhyped.

I'll go ahead and bet my net worth that the Tigers won't have the greatest offense in the history of baseball, but what do I know.

thats not saying much by betting ur net worth

Guess you burned me...............


KC up 4-3 so far, we still may lose, but I like the way we've looked so far.....definitely a much improved ballclub. Tigers offense is so scary though...even if we were leading by 5 I'd still be nervous about it.

How does Bomko not get, well, bombed like only Brett Tomko can that last inning? I'd lol if the Royals beat The BEST OFFENSE OF ALL TIME in the first game...not that it means anything in the long run for the Tigers obv.

EDIT: Oh wait, while I was posting this Brett didn't let me down and gave up the tying shot to Guillen.

Tomko's stuff has actually looked pretty good this spring now that he's added a good curveball. Yeah, he gave up a HR to Guillen, so have a lot of other guys. He looked pretty good, I think he can be reasonable for a little while in the rotation.

Man, going to the 11th, 4-4, what a good game we got. No matter who wins today, I love the way my team looks and love the fact that we're playing a good game in what looked like might be a blowout early on.

LOL Tomko has always had good 'stuff'. That's what makes you eventually hate him so much. He's a nice enough guy though FWIW, so hopefully he has a good year for you guys.

I know. I don't expect him to be "good," he's just holding a spot for a prospect in AAA. But while he is here, I think he can at least not suck for a little while. We'll see.

Also, for all the Royals bashing I take here and everywhere, I think a "suck it" is in order. Yes, the Royals will finish below .500. Yes, the Tigers are a better team, but we're getting a lot better. Time to take notice.



Suck it. Better luck Wednesday.

Sorry but where did I discount then bullpen. I openly admitted that the BP was "Butt Ugly". It wasn't a compliment.

The basic argument stems from how many wins I think are attainable vs. Koops opinion on how many wins are attainable.

I say they do better than 88 he says less than. Fine. It's just been one huge circular argument and the basic jist is we don't agree for various reasons.

The batting was good last year.
The starting rotation was weak last year due to various injuries throughout the season and Bondo falling off again after the break.
The bullpen was crap last year.

This year we added better bats. Who would you think is better? Casey and Guillen or Renteria and Guillen. I say the latter.

We removed the 3rd basemen and his .230 avg and 70+ RBI's with a .300 100+ RBI guy.

The starting rotation looks better than the starting rotation last year. Yes I agree with Koop that saying it's the second best rotation in the AL is ludicrous. I would not say that. I mean look at Cleveland. Sheesh. But it is better than last year. No Maroth who was terrible, no switching between Miller, Lopez, Durbin, Jurrgens (he was decent), Miner, Tata and others to fill in all the injury gaps.

Bullpen is really no different than last year. It stunk last year and it may stink again this year.

We lost 700 man games to injury last year. 700.

I don't think the team has changed that much between last year and I think the additions and if we can stay at least half as healthy that we can win 90-95 games. That is all I am saying. You don't have to agree with that or root for that but I don't think looking at last year and its 88 wins and this year that saying they can win 2-7 more games is all that crazy of an opinion.

My thread title and opening posts were jokes based on Flushgardens crazy Pats thread on the NFL forum. I thought that was clearly obvious, but maybe I was wrong.





I had no doubt that the Royals would get better this year. I think Alex has started his breakout season well. It was a good game.

People are going apeshit out here already freaking out about the season. I love Detroit for this reason. It's one game. All of sudden people are saying bench Polanco and sit Jacque Jones and play the Clete.

Verlander looked good and I thought he should have been done after 6. He was looking a little shaky in the 6th and his pitch count was nearing 90. But I guess when you have questions about your bullpen you will try and stretch your starter.

I will say that I was impressed with Denny. He looks like he has potential. I know he has had a rough go at it in the past but he had looked pretty decent out there yesterday. Overall they all did well. The admitted sore spot of the team did their job yesterday and the 2 parts that are considered by some to be better than average fell short. 18 players left on base is ridiculous. There is no two ways about it. But it was fun watching that lineup. 1-6 is just sick. Regardless of the outcome of the season I have no doubts that this will be a very fun season to watch.

Inge was great yesterday. He has been taking a ton of heat here in Detroit because he asked to be traded. Since then people call up and bash him. I personally would love to see him stay and be our main utility guy. He has proven himself capable to play almost any position. His throw was great yesterday. Funny how people are back on the Inge bandwagon though out here.

Anyway, enough with the arguing, the season started and we can see how it all plays out. I think we can agree that it's good to have baseball back. Now if you excuse me I am off to go "suck it" as requested.

A. For the record, I don't think they are less than an 88 win team..I think about 88-90 is about right. I am saying I don't think they are a playoff team, mostly b/c of all the other strong teams...I don't think they are better than the Indians or the Yank/BoSox..

B. Yeah, leaving 18 on base is sick. Both teams left 18 on base.

C. Counting on Denny Bautista is gonna cost the team big. He will be good in short spurts, but the second he loses a bit of control, he's done..and he's incredibly susceptible to injury to his ulta-skinny frame.....the bullpen is in big trouble unless they can acquire somebody, which might be a lot harder to do now with their lack of trading chips now that they dumped a lot of their prospects away. I suppose Inge would be their best trading chip unless some young guys get off to a good start in the minors.

Again, I don't think Detroit sucks, they are a very good team overall b/c their offense IS very good. I'm just tired of hearing people like Steve Phillips and other "experts" who are saying that the Tigers will have THE greatest offense of all time and that they will win the World Series, without talking about their pitching whatsoever. That's all. The problem is, a lot of the Tigers fans seemed to believe all this hype.........setting themselves up for disappointment. The Tigers are a good team, obviously better than the Royals this year, just not the greatest team of all time.

I agree. I was just reading this article this morning and I can't get past the first sentence...

So the fate of the Greatest Lineup Ever Assembled (well, that might be going a little too far) and the Best Five-Man Rotation in the Bigs Today (that, too) rests on this absurdly slender, 27-year-old shoulder.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Asld...n&type=lgns

I think it may be argued that the lineup could be one of the best at the end of the season but I personally have never heard or read from the media that the Tigers have the best 5 man rotation. Now I saw that thing you saw but I also saw Baseball tonight pick the Red Sox, Indians, Yankees, and Mariners to be the teams out of the AL because they said pitching was the sore spot. At least they recognized it.

I am happy there is dwindling hype. I was tired of hearing it.

I would agree that the hype is dwindling some. I would also agree that there is a good chance that Detroit's offense will be the best in baseball this year.

Don't count out the Giants for that honor once Omar Visquel gets healthy...

The Tigers offense is over hyped (hence why I typed it in all caps earlier in the thread), but baseball writers don't have shit to write about for the winter months so they do stories like that. They will undoubtedly be good offensively, and like you said probably have the most production in baseball. (barring big years from Rich Aurillia and Benji Molina putting the Giants over the top)

It does look good on paper but it is pretty wild watching that game yesterday and trying to come up with a strategy in some situations.

Oh well we can walk Sheff but wait, Mags is on deck. We can walk mags but wait, Cabrera is on deck. We can walk Cabby but wait Guillen is on deck, etc. It's just as good as the Yankees lineup in 06 if not more versatile in my opinion. 1000 runs, I don't think so. Top 3 by the end of the year? Book it. As a Tigers fan you can't help but get giddy on game day.

But what do I know? I adopted the Dodgers to be the NL team I root for.

not much of a showing by the tigers today they got carved up by KC's pitcher only 2 hits off him

Good starting pitching by both sides. Kenny looked decent and Bannister made this lineup look like a little league team. Oh well, I am off to go "suck it" now.

Remember that little "at least we'll start with three easy wins" crack a while back......................oops.

do u try to be a douche or does that just come naturally?

lol yeah, I I told my wife that today and she laughed.