How would you play this hand?
I have $2,800 in front of me.
Deep stacks and a lot of action on the table. Avg stack is $3K - $4K.
There was a straddle on this hand.
I'm in seat 7 and the button is in seat 2. Seat 5 has the straddle on and he has about $4K in front of him. He is an aggressive European and has been straddling all night and is pretty LAG, especially on his straddle, blinds and button.
UTG mucks
I Limp for $20
EDIT: Forgot to mention I limped with Jh, Jc
There are three limpers behind me.
Seat 5 raises to $150 total. (The Stradller)
I call and everyone behind me calls.
Flop comes Ad, Ks, Jd
Seat 5 bets $500.
How would you continue with this hand?
Full Version: $5-$10 Nl Hand
depends on what I have.
this was honestly 5-10 NL???
looks butchered in so many areas,
anyways, raise preflop.
then the hand plays itself
looks butchered in so many areas,
anyways, raise preflop.
then the hand plays itself
Raisy Daisy 
And keep your fingers crossed hoping he has AK/AQ
And keep your fingers crossed hoping he has AK/AQ
Asimo, the passivity you've displayed in the last two hands I've seen you post stuns me.
QUOTE (CobaltBlue @ Saturday, February 9th, 2008, 4:09 AM) 
Asimo, the passivity you've displayed in the last two hands I've seen you post stuns me.
As I mentioned in my last hand (I believe). I am a "seeing flops" kinda guy and for the most part I can out play my opponents post flop so long as I control pot size, which I do when I'm involved in pots, whether that be building up the pot or keeping it small. Especially with hands that I'm OOP on I prefer to see flops before getting too much money in. I play a lot of hands but I hardly every re-raise PF unless I'm sitting on AA,KK, or if I want to just take it down PF with Q,Q, A,K or A,Qs. I will re-raise small PF raises if I'm in position and I want to isolate a player.
I only play live and I'm pretty good at reading my opponents. Most of the games that I play in are very LAG and/or filled with weaker players, so I get paid off when I do hit big.
For example in the hand above. If I was to re-raise PF I'd have to make it $500 - $600+ that would represent 20%+/- of my chip stack. When I do get called by at least the original raiser I am going to have to C-Bet and yet there won't be too many flops that I'm going to fall in love with unless it contains a Jack.
I play long sessions and don't see the need to get in a lot of money PF, when I can consistently pick up small pots post flop and get paid off on my big hands when I have a huge edge. Why should I flip coins if I know I'm gonna get paid off when I'm a 65%+ favorite?
This style has worked for me for several years but I do adjust my play to action of the table.
There is a lot more to my game that I haven't shared or posted hands on.
*** Sorry if this post is choppy, it's close to 5:00AM here and I'm falling asleep.***
I don't mind limping with JJ as long as you are raising AQ, AK, TJ on occasion. Just don't be the guy that raises AA or KK.
You have to raise on the flop, way to draw heavy, if a T or a K comes you are going to have to shut down. Raise $1500 to go and call a push.
You have to raise on the flop, way to draw heavy, if a T or a K comes you are going to have to shut down. Raise $1500 to go and call a push.
OK. I think I probably raise. Problem is, I don't know what to make it ... a shove is gonna kill action from hands we beat ... $1,200 sound OK? It sucks because if the turn is brutally ugly (like a ten), we're ****ed. But I don't see much good coming out of smooth calling (AGAIN) because we're not real deep compared to what this pot is gonna be if we get any more callers than ourselves and we really don't want to let people who are sitting in the gaps on this board see more cards. My goal is to get heads up with the straddler (the Euro, right?) because this play is SO characteristic of the Euros I've seen play with any virtually ace. If someone flopped the straight, well, I'm guessing we'll have odds to shove this anyway, by the time it gets back to us.
Ok, I wanna ask a few questions and give you guys a few different scenarios of how the hand could have played out and let me know how you would have proceeded.
1st) Say, I were to raise to $1,500 and it's mucked around to the European and he pushes are we mucking?
2nd) Say, I was to just call the $500 on the flop and all the other players behind fold. The As hits the turn and the European bets $1,000, now what?
3rd) Why not push instead of raising to $1,500? Aren't we essentially committing ourselves to the pot if we raise $1,500? -- Keep in mind you can make deals at running the turn and river multiple times in this game. That being said is it not better to get the money in on the flop and if you're called to try and make a deal, if the the caller has something like A,Q or A,K or Q,10?
I'll post my action and the results later.
1st) Say, I were to raise to $1,500 and it's mucked around to the European and he pushes are we mucking?
2nd) Say, I was to just call the $500 on the flop and all the other players behind fold. The As hits the turn and the European bets $1,000, now what?
3rd) Why not push instead of raising to $1,500? Aren't we essentially committing ourselves to the pot if we raise $1,500? -- Keep in mind you can make deals at running the turn and river multiple times in this game. That being said is it not better to get the money in on the flop and if you're called to try and make a deal, if the the caller has something like A,Q or A,K or Q,10?
I'll post my action and the results later.
QUOTE (Asimo @ Saturday, February 9th, 2008, 10:09 AM)
Ok, I wanna ask a few questions and give you guys a few different scenarios of how the hand could have played out and let me know how you would have proceeded.
1st) Say, I were to raise to $1,500 and it's mucked around to the European and he pushes are we mucking?
2nd) Say, I was to just call the $500 on the flop and all the other players behind fold. The As hits the turn and the European bets $1,000, now what?
3rd) Why not push instead of raising to $1,500? Aren't we essentially committing ourselves to the pot if we raise $1,500? -- Keep in mind you can make deals at running the turn and river multiple times in this game. That being said is it not better to get the money in on the flop and if you're called to try and make a deal, if the the caller has something like A,Q or A,K or Q,10?
I'll post my action and the results later.
1st) Say, I were to raise to $1,500 and it's mucked around to the European and he pushes are we mucking?
2nd) Say, I was to just call the $500 on the flop and all the other players behind fold. The As hits the turn and the European bets $1,000, now what?
3rd) Why not push instead of raising to $1,500? Aren't we essentially committing ourselves to the pot if we raise $1,500? -- Keep in mind you can make deals at running the turn and river multiple times in this game. That being said is it not better to get the money in on the flop and if you're called to try and make a deal, if the the caller has something like A,Q or A,K or Q,10?
I'll post my action and the results later.
1st) Never. if he shoves over our $1,200 - $1,500 raise and shows the nuts, we're getting the right price to call at the flop, and he's never improving his hand over ours if we run it twice.
2nd) We shove.
3rd) Yeah, that's what I said was the trouble with the way this pot was developing. Our position sucks, and it swelled pretty fast, and our hand is as misrepresented as it possibly can be. I think we are raising the $1,200 to islolate the Euro and call his shove. For some reason, I really think that style of player holds a naked ace here and I think he's shoving it every time over our raise.
If we get the money in on the flop, I run this twice (thrice would be sweeter) all day long, no matter what he holds. The interesting thing is, that if the Euro has aces up, he isn't going to over boat us twice when the board runs out. If it's set over set, that's life, we'll take as many shots at that last jack as we can.
QUOTE (mtdesmoines @ Saturday, February 9th, 2008, 11:24 AM)
1st) Never. if he shoves over our $1,200 - $1,500 raise and shows the nuts, we're getting the right price to call at the flop, and he's never improving his hand over ours if we run it twice.
2nd) We shove.
3rd) Yeah, that's what I said was the trouble with the way this pot was developing. Our position sucks, and it swelled pretty fast, and our hand is as misrepresented as it possibly can be. I think we are raising the $1,200 to islolate the Euro and call his shove. For some reason, I really think that style of player holds a naked ace here and I think he's shoving it every time over our raise.
If we get the money in on the flop, I run this twice (thrice would be sweeter) all day long, no matter what he holds. The interesting thing is, that if the Euro has aces up, he isn't going to over boat us twice when the board runs out. If it's set over set, that's life, we'll take as many shots at that last jack as we can.
2nd) We shove.
3rd) Yeah, that's what I said was the trouble with the way this pot was developing. Our position sucks, and it swelled pretty fast, and our hand is as misrepresented as it possibly can be. I think we are raising the $1,200 to islolate the Euro and call his shove. For some reason, I really think that style of player holds a naked ace here and I think he's shoving it every time over our raise.
If we get the money in on the flop, I run this twice (thrice would be sweeter) all day long, no matter what he holds. The interesting thing is, that if the Euro has aces up, he isn't going to over boat us twice when the board runs out. If it's set over set, that's life, we'll take as many shots at that last jack as we can.
Ok, I decided to push knowing that I'm basically not getting off the hand and if someone did flop the nuts or A,K or A,Q that it's better for me to push on the flop and try to run the turn and river three times. If no one calls then I'll take down the pot right there and not allow any draws.
Everyone ends up mucking around to the European and he calls with K,K and doesn't want to run it multiple times. The turn was the As, so even if I would have re-raised on the flop to $1,500 and lets say he were to just call the flop, the rest would have gone in on the turn regardless.
I didn't read a lot of the responses.
Even if you do want to see flops, you NEED to get value for your hands preflop and built pots with your hands that will enable you to stack them when you get a favorable flop. The only reason I'd ever limp JJ into a straddled pot is for the specific reason of repopping an aggro straddler with it.
Once I see that flop, I'm just trying to figure out how to get all of my chips in there.
Even if you do want to see flops, you NEED to get value for your hands preflop and built pots with your hands that will enable you to stack them when you get a favorable flop. The only reason I'd ever limp JJ into a straddled pot is for the specific reason of repopping an aggro straddler with it.
Once I see that flop, I'm just trying to figure out how to get all of my chips in there.
QUOTE (Asimo @ Saturday, February 9th, 2008, 2:56 PM)
Ok, I decided to push knowing that I'm basically not getting off the hand and if someone did flop the nuts or A,K or A,Q that it's better for me to push on the flop and try to run the turn and river three times. If no one calls then I'll take down the pot right there and not allow any draws.
Everyone ends up mucking around to the European and he calls with K,K and doesn't want to run it multiple times. The turn was the As, so even if I would have re-raised on the flop to $1,500 and lets say he were to just call the flop, the rest would have gone in on the turn regardless.
Everyone ends up mucking around to the European and he calls with K,K and doesn't want to run it multiple times. The turn was the As, so even if I would have re-raised on the flop to $1,500 and lets say he were to just call the flop, the rest would have gone in on the turn regardless.
Fukken Euro-bastards.
I don't think you're going to see many people play it different, other than raising/repopping PF. This is the FCP NL STRAT FORUM. We don't fold flopped sets.
QUOTE (Asimo @ Saturday, February 9th, 2008, 6:58 AM)
As I mentioned in my last hand (I believe). I am a "seeing flops" kinda guy and for the most part I can out play my opponents post flop so long as I control pot size, which I do when I'm involved in pots, whether that be building up the pot or keeping it small. Especially with hands that I'm OOP on I prefer to see flops before getting too much money in.
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Saturday, February 9th, 2008, 5:32 PM)
Even if you do want to see flops, you NEED to get value for your hands preflop and built pots with your hands that will enable you to stack them when you get a favorable flop.
Look...I understand seeing flops. I'm all for that...but you'd like to have pots worth outplaying people for post-flop, right? If you're not raising or limp-re-raising AQs/JJ, I'm not clear what you're ever raising. If it has to be AA/KK/QQ/AK, then you're being ridiculously transparent pre-flop. And, if I recall correctly, you basically had position on your side in the previous hand and essentially have position in this one.
I agree with Acid and Colbalt 100%.
lots of interesting fundamental errors in your game...should listen to some of the other posters; it nothing else...at least it will get you thinking.
live games are so freaking weak i understand to a point about what you mean, "seeing" flops, but you give up a lot of value to hands playing so passive.
and you get paid off cause these guys are seemingly so bad, not cause you yourself are playing crazy and thus getting paid off...all the more to play your strong hands aggressively and start 3betting ppl more pf cause they most likely will continue to pay you off and i'd imagine you'd pull in more money/hour.
- Jordan
live games are so freaking weak i understand to a point about what you mean, "seeing" flops, but you give up a lot of value to hands playing so passive.
and you get paid off cause these guys are seemingly so bad, not cause you yourself are playing crazy and thus getting paid off...all the more to play your strong hands aggressively and start 3betting ppl more pf cause they most likely will continue to pay you off and i'd imagine you'd pull in more money/hour.
- Jordan
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