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Randy Reed
Friday
Shoulder press with outrig 3x15x70
Chest press with outrig 3x15x90
MidRows 3x15x100
Tri-extension 3x15x80
Weighted arm curls (bi's) 3x15x100
Instead of using the bar or rope I have a horse-collar thing the gym
came with that has 2 handles and used for weighted ab crunches. I was
able to use it one-handed which worked great.

Saturday
Treadmill

Sunday
Leg extensions 3x15x80
Leg Curls 3x15x80
Calves press 3x15x150
Janda crunches 3x15
Hyper ext bench 3x15x20 (holding 2 ten lb weights)

Rode bike an hour in the evening
avsfan
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 3:26 PM) *
It's a miracle. Guess who went and did a half hour of cardio and 150 crunches today?

I think I've developed a lower back thing. It's been feeling weird, resulting in tightness and a dull pain in my right hammy area. Well, this morning it hit it's peak and I couldn't bring my right leg up to put on my sock. Yay for me. I couldn't reach down far enough either. Too tight. It loosens up by the end of the day with activity, but doesn't completely go away. Fortunately, it didn't affect my time on the bike or doing abs, and I tested the elliptical and that seemed fine too. I'll do cardio for a week and it if goes away, great, if not, I'll slowly work some light weights into the mix.

I'M BACK BABY

pardon the pun


Hi Ron. Please check out this video on Janda Sit ups. I think it is more than worth the time; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDLPFrpZdxM
avsfan
QUOTE (Randy Reed @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 3:27 PM) *
Friday
Shoulder press with outrig 3x15x70
Chest press with outrig 3x15x90
MidRows 3x15x100
Tri-extension 3x15x80
Weighted arm curls (bi's) 3x15x100
Instead of using the bar or rope I have a horse-collar thing the gym
came with that has 2 handles and used for weighted ab crunches. I was
able to use it one-handed which worked great.

Saturday
Treadmill

Sunday
Leg extensions 3x15x80
Leg Curls 3x15x80
Calves press 3x15x150
Janda crunches 3x15
Hyper ext bench 3x15x20 (holding 2 ten lb weights)

Rode bike an hour in the evening


Looks Aweswome. It is really excellent that you are rowing more than you are pressing, WTG! Keep up the Excellent work! Can you do leg presses with your machine?
dolfan
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 4:26 PM) *
It's a miracle. Guess who went and did a half hour of cardio and 150 crunches today?


Good to see you're back at it. Hope your back issue won't be an excuse the next time you quit, loser.

Really, though, I hope you keep with it and keep some of us here in line.
Ron_Mexico
QUOTE (avsfan @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 6:36 PM) *
Hi Ron. Please check out this video on Janda Sit ups. I think it is more than worth the time; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDLPFrpZdxM

I shall, thank you sir

QUOTE (dolfan @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 6:49 PM) *
Good to see you're back at it. Hope your back issue won't be an excuse the next time you quit, loser.

Really, though, I hope you keep with it and keep some of us here in line.

Hey, I may be able to pork an angel if I stay hefty.
Randy Reed
QUOTE (avsfan @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 3:38 PM) *
Looks Aweswome. It is really excellent that you are rowing more than you are pressing, WTG! Keep up the Excellent work! Can you do leg presses with your machine?


Yeah, meant to ask you about that. I have the leg press and used it on lower body last time and have been using it
but I decided to switch up this time. It's weird since it is more of a lateral leg press vs the upright kind at the gym where
you are pushing on an upward angle. I can't do nearly as much with the lateral one, maxing at 175 so far. I did do
3x160x12 last time using your method.

I also noticed that alot of people add a little extra weight each lift vs staying the same. I was wondering your thoughts on whether
I should or not?

I also used to do 2 of each exercise adding one similar exercise short set which i'm skipping for now. I was thinking of doing one exercise for
a month or so and then switching or should I do it more often?
avsfan
QUOTE (Randy Reed @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 4:26 PM) *
Yeah, meant to ask you about that. I have the leg press and used it on lower body last time and have been using it
but I decided to switch up this time. It's weird since it is more of a lateral leg press vs the upright kind at the gym where
you are pushing on an upward angle. I can't do nearly as much with the lateral one, maxing at 175 so far. I did do
3x160x12 last time using your method.

I also noticed that alot of people add a little extra weight each lift vs staying the same. I was wondering your thoughts on whether
I should or not?

I also used to do 2 of each exercise adding one similar exercise short set which i'm skipping for now. I was thinking of doing one exercise for
a month or so and then switching or should I do it more often?



I am ok with switching things up some. I do believe in sticking with a few basic exercise for men though. I suggest doing leg presses two work outs in a row the doing leg extensions two workouts in a row...etc.etc.


They are changing weight based on a percentage of a one rep max. The method you are using is sound and fundamental. Once you get all 3 sets doing 15 reps each just remember to move up in weight and you will be fine.


One fundamental exercise per body part is all that is needed. You may like this article on sticking with the basics; http://www.brookskubik.com/?p=331 I do believe the shoulders are more complex than the rest of the body. You can expand your routine to this;

in this order;

Friday
*Chest press with outrig 3x15x90
MidRows 3x15x100
*Shoulder press with outrig 3x15x70
*Upright rows 3x15
*bent over flys 3x15
Tri-extension 3x15x80
Weighted arm curls (bi's) 3x15x100
Instead of using the bar or rope I have a horse-collar thing the gym
came with that has 2 handles and used for weighted ab crunches. I was
able to use it one-handed which worked great.

Saturday
Treadmill

Sunday
*Leg extensions 3x15x80 or Leg Presses
Leg Curls 3x15x80
Calves press 3x15x150
Janda crunches 3x15
Hyper ext bench 3x15x20 (holding 2 ten lb weights)

Rode bike an hour in the evening


*denotes new or order change



This post also explains why the fundamentals work better;

I present Belail's through explanation;

"The existence of the so-called "upper", "lower", "inner" and "outer" pectorals along with the assertion that it is possible to isolate one or more of these to the relative exclusion of the others in training, are among the most firmly entrenched myths in Strength Training and Bodybuilding circles. In fact none of these truly exist as either separate and distinct muscles or regions in a functional sense. Even though it could be argued that there appears to be a structural distinction between the upper and lower pectorals (and some anatomy texts do in fact support this distinction though not all do) because the pectoralis-major does originate from both the sternum and the proximal or sternal half of the clavicle along it’s anterior surface (it also has connections to the cartilages of all the true ribs with the frequent exception of the first and seventh, and to the Aponeurosis of the external oblique muscle), this is considered to be a common (though extensive) origin in terms of the mechanical function of the muscle. Thus the pectoralis-major is in fact for all practical purposes one continuous muscle with a common origin and insertion, and functions as a single force-producing unit. The terms upper, lower, inner and outer are imprecise and relevant only in order to make a vague subjective distinction between relative portions of the same muscle for descriptive purposes. They are vague and imprecise terms because there is no clearly delineated or universally defined border between them.

Further it is not physically possible either in theory or practice to contract one region of a single muscle to the exclusion of another region or regions (as a Biomechanics Professor of mine once demonstrated to a bunch of us smart-ass know-it-all’s taking his course, using EMG analysis). When a muscle contracts it does so in a linear fashion by simultaneously reducing the length of its constituent fibers and thus its overall length from origin to insertion. Even where a single muscle is separated into multiple functional units that are clearly defined such as the triceps (which are referred to as “heads” by Anatomists and Biomechanists), because they share a common point of insertion in order for one head to shorten all must shorten. This only makes sense if you think about it because otherwise there would be “slack” in one when the other shortened, which as we know does not occur. Note that there are some special cases where one head of a muscle must actually lengthen when the other shortens (e.g. the posterior head of the deltoid in relation to the anterior head during the positive stroke of fly’s), the point however is that even in these special cases there is no “slack” because there is in fact contractile activity (whether concentric or eccentric) throughout the muscle.

That is not to say however, that all fibers in different areas, or heads are necessarily shortened to the same degree during a particular movement. Depending on the shape of the muscle, the joint geometry involved, and the specific movement being performed, fibers in one area of a muscle or head may be required to shorten more or less than in others (or even to lengthen) in order to complete the required movement. For example during a decline fly though muscle fibers in all regions of the pectoralis-major must shorten as the upper arm is drawn towards the median plane of the body, because of the angle of the arm in relation to the trunk the fibers in what we commonly refer to as the lower pecs will have shortened by a greater percentage of their overall length than those in the upper region of the muscle by the completion of the movement. Conversely when performing an incline fly there is greater shortening in the fibers towards the upper portion of the muscle than in the lower.

Many proponents of the so-called “isolation” approach to training claim that this proportionally greater shortening of the fibers equates to greater tension in the “target” region than in others, and therefore stimulates greater adaptation; but this is completely at odds with the cross-bridge model of muscle contraction which clearly shows that as fiber length decreases tension also declines due to increasing overlap and interference in the area of the cross-bridges. Some also contend that the fibers called upon to shorten to a greater degree tend to fatigue faster than others and that therefore there is greater overall fiber recruitment in the region where this occurs, and thus a greater stimulus to growth; but there is no evidence to suggest that a fiber fatigues faster in one position than in another in relation to other fibers in the same muscle. In fact it has been shown that Time Under Tension (TUT) is the determining factor in fatigue and not fiber length. In fact fiber recruitment tends to increase in a very uniform fashion throughout an entire muscle as fatigue sets in.

The ability to “isolate” a head, or region of a muscle to the exclusion of others by performing a particular movement, or by limiting movement to a particular plane and thus develop it to a greater degree, is a myth created by people who wish to appear more knowledgeable than they are, and has been perpetuated by trade magazines and parroted throughout gyms everywhere. It is pure non-sense and completely ignores the applicable elements of physiology, anatomy, and physics in particular. Quite simply the science does not support it, and in most cases is completely at odds with the idea.
Regardless of the science however, many people will remain firmly convinced that muscle isolation is a reality because they can “feel” different movements more in one region of a muscle than in others. This I do not dispute, nor does science. There is in fact differentiated neural feedback from motor units depending on the relative length of the component fibers, and this feedback tends to be (or is interpreted by the brain as) more intense when the fibers in question are either shortened (contracted) or lengthened (stretched) in the extreme. However this has to do with proprioception (the ability to sense the orientation and relative position of your body in space by interpreting neural feedback related to muscle fiber length and joint position) and not tension, fatigue, or level of fiber recruitment. Unfortunately it has been seized upon and offered up as “evidence” by those looking to support their ideas by any means available.

Muscle shape is a function of genetics and degree of overall development. As you develop a muscle towards its potential, it does change in appearance (generally for the better) but always within the parameters defined by its inherent shape. A person who tends to have proportionately more mass towards the upper, lower, inner or outer region of his or her pectoralis-major will always have that tendency, though it may be more or less apparent at various stages in their development, and in most cases appears less pronounced as overall development proceeds. That is not to say that training a muscle group from multiple angles is totally without value. In fact we know that even subtly different movements can elicit varying levels of fiber recruitment within a muscle in an overall sense (i.e. in terms of the percentage of total available fibers) due to differences in joint mechanics, and neural activation patterns, as well as varying involvement of synergistic and antagonistic muscle groups involved. So by all means experiment with different angles in your training, but don’t expect to be able to correct so-called “unbalanced” muscles this way, or to target specific areas of a particular muscle. Work to develop each of your muscles as completely as possible and shape will take care of itself. If you want to worry about “shaping” you should pay more attention to the balance between different muscle groups and work to bring up any weak groups you may have in relation to the rest of your physique."


Stick with the basics/fundamentals and keep progressing and results will keep cumming.
socalpoker_j
Randy,

No squat or DL in your workouts?
avsfan
QUOTE (socalpoker_j @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 4:54 PM) *
Randy,

No squat or DL in your workouts?


Randy has a universal type machine and some light dumbbells.


Randy does not have a Olympic bar. He does have a leg press attachment and a hyper bench.


Socal you need to get dratj on track, smile.gif.
dolfan
QUOTE (Ron_Mexico @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 5:08 PM) *
Hey, I may be able to pork an angel if I stay hefty.


Oh, so it's all about the women with you. Here I was thinking the point of getting in shape was to live longer, healthier, happier lives. To accomplish something, you know? To challenge oneself and reach a goal.

I mean, physical attractiveness? Pshaw.
avsfan
QUOTE (dolfan @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 2:37 PM) *
Good call. Revision:

Monday - Flying 200's
Tuesday - Push ups
Wednesday - 60 min (or more) run, pull ups/dips
Thursday - Abs
Friday - Steps
Saturday - Push ups/abs


I haven't done dips or pull ups for a long time. Should be interesting to see how much I struggle with those.


At first, I was content that I got you to make some progress by adding pull ups in once a week. But then I was all, I got to give Dolfan my all. I suggest;

Monday - Flying 200's
Tuesday - Push ups or Dips/Pull ups or Australian Pull ups/Abs
Wednesday - 60 min (or more) run
Thursday - Push ups or Dips/Pull ups or Australian Pull ups/Abs
Friday - Steps
Saturday - Push ups or Dips/Pull ups or Australian Pull ups/Abs


This could help. The perfect pull up, now with a dip bar; http://www.perfectpullup.com/
Resourceful tip on Australian Pull ups; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e26VAlQVVwg
dolfan
QUOTE (avsfan @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 11:39 PM) *
At first, I was content that I got you to make some progress by adding pull ups in once a week. But then I was all, I got to give Dolfan my all. I suggest;

Monday - Flying 200's
Tuesday - Push ups or Dips/Pull ups or Australian Pull ups/Abs
Wednesday - 60 min (or more) run
Thursday - Push ups or Dips/Pull ups or Australian Pull ups/Abs
Friday - Steps
Saturday - Push ups or Dips/Pull ups or Australian Pull ups/Abs


This could help. The perfect pull up, now with a dip bar; http://www.perfectpullup.com/
Resourceful tip on Australian Pull ups; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e26VAlQVVwg


Ha. As much as I appreciate when somebody gives me their all, the problem with adding all the dips and pull ups several times a week is that I really can only do those at the gym. I'm only planning on being at the gym once a week with this schedule so I won't have the opportunity to do them more often. My apartment is really small and I don't have the ability to put any equipment in there at the moment, so I'm kind of stuck.

If I go through my current schedule for a few weeks and feel like I REALLY want to get more dips/pull ups in then I guess I'll just have to make the trip to the gym more than once a week. But with summer in full swing (and summer is gorgeous here) I want to do as much outside as I can.

Thanks again, though. I appreciate all the suggestions and feedback.
avsfan
QUOTE (dolfan @ Tuesday, June 9th, 2009, 8:22 AM) *
Ha. As much as I appreciate when somebody gives me their all, the problem with adding all the dips and pull ups several times a week is that I really can only do those at the gym. I'm only planning on being at the gym once a week with this schedule so I won't have the opportunity to do them more often. My apartment is really small and I don't have the ability to put any equipment in there at the moment, so I'm kind of stuck.

If I go through my current schedule for a few weeks and feel like I REALLY want to get more dips/pull ups in then I guess I'll just have to make the trip to the gym more than once a week. But with summer in full swing (and summer is gorgeous here) I want to do as much outside as I can.

Thanks again, though. I appreciate all the suggestions and feedback.


I am mainly concerned that you do equal pull movements to the push movements you perform. I am mainly advocating that you work your back/pull as much as your chest/push. Perhaps doing standing rows or power band seated rows with some thing like this. Example with exercise demo videos http://secure.monkeybargym.com/cart/index....;products_id=14 You do have a front door?

Jungel Gym Demo starts at 4:41; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LVdKMTzgwI

The jungle gym can be used with a door and is a great tool for many exercises and it is around $50. So the Jungle gym is a awesome portable gym that opens the door to many awesome exercises.

btw. The Hindu push up does involve the back as well as the entire upper body equally.
Love4hockey
I've been making it to the gym only 4 times a week lately. I've gone three days in a row which is good. Now that I'm home living with my parents for the summer I have a harder time motivating my self to go workout since I don't have a gym in my building like I did at college. I'm very impressed with you guys that work 40 hour weeks and make it to the gym 6 times a day. I painted a house last week and was too tired and sore so I only made it to the gym once last week. I just started working at an office supply store as a furniture installer again so I have to drive past my gym on the way home. I'm bringing workout clothes with me so I can force myself to go.

I tried the janda situps tonight and they seem pretty good. After 3 sets of 30 my abs were pretty sore. I'm going to do them for a few weeks and see how good they work.
GrinderMJ
Ridiculously sore right now, first day back at the gym on Monday after about 10 days. I've been travelling/moving and have been sick for a full week now, but hopefully it's almost over. Trying to eliminate the soreness with some static stretching and foam rolling, and some vitamins/glutamine with a protein shake. Didn't really lose a ton in the gym despite the absence, squat form was pretty brutal but it was my first time with no mirror in a very long time. Presses were really good though.
avsfan
QUOTE (Love4hockey @ Tuesday, June 9th, 2009, 5:12 PM) *
I've been making it to the gym only 4 times a week lately. I've gone three days in a row which is good. Now that I'm home living with my parents for the summer I have a harder time motivating my self to go workout since I don't have a gym in my building like I did at college. I'm very impressed with you guys that work 40 hour weeks and make it to the gym 6 times a day. I painted a house last week and was too tired and sore so I only made it to the gym once last week. I just started working at an office supply store as a furniture installer again so I have to drive past my gym on the way home. I'm bringing workout clothes with me so I can force myself to go.

I tried the janda situps tonight and they seem pretty good. After 3 sets of 30 my abs were pretty sore. I'm going to do them for a few weeks and see how good they work.


I usually motivate myself by reminding me that I am doing this for me. So many things in life aren't about me. So by reminding me That this working out business is something that is actually for and about me. It gets me going. You cant take that awaaaay from me.... wink.gif
avsfan
QUOTE (GrinderMJ @ Tuesday, June 9th, 2009, 6:42 PM) *
Ridiculously sore right now, first day back at the gym on Monday after about 10 days. I've been travelling/moving and have been sick for a full week now, but hopefully it's almost over. Trying to eliminate the soreness with some static stretching and foam rolling, and some vitamins/glutamine with a protein shake. Didn't really lose a ton in the gym despite the absence, squat form was pretty brutal but it was my first time with no mirror in a very long time. Presses were really good though.


Welcome back! It is good to read ya. Seemed like you needed a break. It is good to learn to squat with out a mirror. POWER LIFTERS and Ripptoeians aren't allowed mirrors, smile.gif. But, Seriously Welcome Back!
dolfan
QUOTE (avsfan @ Tuesday, June 9th, 2009, 4:39 PM) *
I am mainly concerned that you do equal pull movements to the push movements you perform. I am mainly advocating that you work your back/pull as much as your chest/push.


It's a good point. I'm only in the second week of setting a summer routine so I'm sure I'll be tweaking it for a while. I'll try to find a way to incorporate more back stuff to even it out.

I've been slowly introducing Hindu push ups to my routine. I feel like it's going to take me a while to get comfortable with/good at them because now I struggle and feel like my form is pretty awful.

I'll be throwing some Janda sit ups in on Thursday to see how I like them.
avsfan
Here is a efficient core exercise called The Plank.

The basic Plank; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHQmRINu4jU

ABC Planks with Stability ball; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC64hZYvs1M


I hope you enjoy.smile.gif
Love4hockey
I ran out of Optimum Nutrition whey protein, extreme milk chocolate, so I thought I would try EAS whey protein, chocolate flavor from Sam's Club. It only cost $26 compared to ON at $42. The EAS tastes very watery. I don't like it at all but it's not bad enough that I won't drink it but I definitely won't buy it again. Atleast it has the same macros as ON.
dolfan
QUOTE (avsfan @ Wednesday, June 10th, 2009, 6:29 PM) *
Here is a efficient core exercise called The Plank.


I do planks as part of my ab workout once a week. I like them because all I have to do is sit there, basically.

Tonight I got 7.09 miles in 60 minutes. Then I did 2 sets each of: back extensions, dips, and pull ups. I did the assisted dips and pull ups since this is my first time in like two years just to get an idea of where I'm at. Unfortunately, I'll need to keep doing assisted pull ups for a while to get back in shape but I'm good to go on dips.

It's definitely refreshing to have a completely different routine than I did a few weeks ago.
avsfan
Dolfan, I remebered these and thought of you. Lebert Equalizers; http://www.lebertequalizer.com/eq_product.htm video demo; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnPomv5mOvc...l=http%3A%2F%2F and The Ultimate Body Press; http://www.ultimatebodypress.com/ video demo; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whdhoKzfFgo...re=channel_page more Ultimate body press videos; http://www.youtube.com/user/Ultimatebodypress

Both pieces of equipment are portable(use it at home or take it outside with you) and easily store away when not in use. You can perform bodyweight rows for your back, dips, and many other body weight exercises.

I hope this helps.
El Guapo
I went for about a 4 mile walk/hike with my kids last night. The reason I throw hike in there is because some of the hills are like San Francisco and my son rides his bike, which I end up pushing him on and off up the big hills.

Going to try and lift tonight. I have been working 12-16 hours a day, so I am having to squeeze workouts in wherever I can.
Randy Reed
QUOTE (avsfan @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 3:43 PM) *
in this order;

Friday
*Chest press with outrig 3x15x90
MidRows 3x15x100
*Shoulder press with outrig 3x15x70
*Upright rows 3x15
*bent over flys 3x15
Tri-extension 3x15x80
Weighted arm curls (bi's) 3x15x100
Instead of using the bar or rope I have a horse-collar thing the gym
came with that has 2 handles and used for weighted ab crunches. I was
able to use it one-handed which worked great.

Saturday
Treadmill

Sunday
*Leg extensions 3x15x80 or Leg Presses
Leg Curls 3x15x80
Calves press 3x15x150
Janda crunches 3x15
Hyper ext bench 3x15x20 (holding 2 ten lb weights)

Rode bike an hour in the evening


*denotes new or order change




Stick with the basics/fundamentals and keep progressing and results will keep cumming.



Great articles and info. It took me a minute on the changes but then I realize that I do
chest first after all, then shoulder and then back. You are suggesting chest, back, shoulder.

*Upright rows 3x15
*bent over flys 3x15


Suggestions on doing these on the circuit machine? I understand the rows and as long as my
wrist doesn't hurt I'll give it a whirl. I am kinda confused on the flys though.

Also, on Wed I did dumbell presses (chest) with some 25 lb dumbells. Shaky at first but got back in the
swing and did 3x15 going slow and paying attention to form. I woke up last night with my chest throbbing
and it's sore as hell today, but in a great way! ha ha

dolfan
Random observation at the gym last night: There appears to be a lesbian couple that goes to my gym.
Pertinent addendum to that observation: One of them looks like Barry Pepper.
El Guapo
QUOTE (dolfan @ Thursday, June 11th, 2009, 11:00 AM) *
Random observation at the gym last night: There appears to be a lesbian couple that goes to my gym.
Pertinent addendum to that observation: One of them looks like Barry Pepper.



That's just GrinderMJ. You guys should be workout partners.
avsfan
QUOTE (Randy Reed @ Thursday, June 11th, 2009, 10:44 AM) *
Great articles and info. It took me a minute on the changes but then I realize that I do
chest first after all, then shoulder and then back. You are suggesting chest, back, shoulder.

*Upright rows 3x15
*bent over flys 3x15


Suggestions on doing these on the circuit machine? I understand the rows and as long as my
wrist doesn't hurt I'll give it a whirl. I am kinda confused on the flys though.

Also, on Wed I did dumbell presses (chest) with some 25 lb dumbells. Shaky at first but got back in the
swing and did 3x15 going slow and paying attention to form. I woke up last night with my chest throbbing
and it's sore as hell today, but in a great way! ha ha



Yes I am suggesting Chest(push), Back(pull), Shoulders(push(over head press) then pull(upright row)), Triceps(push), and then Biceps(pull).....Grip/Wrist work like leveraging at the very end.

The ordering is based on Muscle Size and Push Pull. There is one exception. You a starting with Chest which is smaller than Back but this enables you to finish with Biceps which are the smallest.

So Why Push then Pull? Balance and Rest. By doing Push then a Pull you enable muscles to rest while you work muscles that balance and perform the opposite function. Example; the Chest is a Push and Pulls the Shoulder Girdle forward. The Back is a Pull and Pulls the Shoulder Girdle back. The triceps also assist the Chest and Shoulders. The Biceps assist the Back and Traps/upright rows. So by alternating Push and Pull you enable smaller weaker assitor muscle to get some rest, thus maximizing the performance of the larger muscles. If you Do Shoulders after chest which would be Push after Push. Your triceps will be more tired than if you put Back in between Chest and Shoulders. Now some may say, "If you prexaust Triceps your Shoulders will have to do more work.". That is a flawed idea because your shoulders are bigger and stronger than you Triceps which are the weakest link here already.. So by pre exausting your Triceps you actually work you Shoulders less.

also....the bigger muscles will pull blood out of the smaller muscle if worked after.

When doing Upright Rows raise the bar to around nipple height. this will reduce stress on your wrist and shoulders. I would also lean very slightly forward as well, very very slightly forward. You can also perform Upright rows one handed. You can use dumbbells or a low Pulley. If using a low pulley stand close to the pulley so the cable comes as close to straight up as possible.

I never advocate doing flys, front raises or side raises. I only advocate Bent over Flys because they target the weak and under developed rear delts(shoulder). I like to do bent over flys lying on a incline bench set around a 45 degree angle. Here are some examples. One Armed Bent Over Cable Fly; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPQY0aWBIR0 with Dumbbells; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdrh-xBr20c...feature=related

Dumbbells are awesome. The extra stabilization makes them the best for many movements. One arm Bent Over rows are a favorite of mine, Example for One Arm Dumbbel Rows starts at time 2:41. A demo for Bent Over Dumbbell Flys Starts at time 5:01; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgUsXA4JX0w I suggest keeping the weight ratio at approx 1:1 for chest to back i.e. use approx the same weight you would Dumbbell Chest Press ideally.


and do not forget to add weight during the next workout if you get all 3 of your sets for a solid 15 reps.

I am glad you liked the articles and Keep up the Excellent Work!
avsfan
Is Rippetoe a Nazi? You be the judge; Rippetoe reading Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training, Chapter 1, Part 1; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L8gX3wB0o0...re=channel_page

smile.gif Oh my! I did it now.....hehehehehe
avsfan
QUOTE (dolfan @ Thursday, June 11th, 2009, 11:00 AM) *
Random observation at the gym last night: There appears to be a lesbian couple that goes to my gym.
Pertinent addendum to that observation: One of them looks like Barry Pepper.


Did she look like the guitarist from Beat Happening; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsIZg74mLt8 smile.gif
Randy Reed
QUOTE (avsfan @ Thursday, June 11th, 2009, 4:03 PM) *
Yes I am suggesting Chest(push), Back(pull), Shoulders(push(over head press) then pull(upright row)), Triceps(push), and then Biceps(pull).....Grip/Wrist work like leveraging at the very end.

The ordering is based on Muscle Size and Push Pull. There is one exception. You a starting with Chest which is smaller than Back but this enables you to finish with Biceps which are the smallest.

So Why Push then Pull? Balance and Rest. By doing Push then a Pull you enable muscles to rest while you work muscles that balance and perform the opposite function. Example; the Chest is a Push and Pulls the Shoulder Girdle forward. The Back is a Pull and Pulls the Shoulder Girdle back. The triceps also assist the Chest and Shoulders. The Biceps assist the Back and Traps/upright rows. So by alternating Push and Pull you enable smaller weaker assitor muscle to get some rest, thus maximizing the performance of the larger muscles. If you Do Shoulders after chest which would be Push after Push. Your triceps will be more tired than if you put Back in between Chest and Shoulders. Now some may say, "If you prexaust Triceps your Shoulders will have to do more work.". That is a flawed idea because your shoulders are bigger and stronger than you Triceps which are the weakest link here already.. So by pre exausting your Triceps you actually work you Shoulders less.

also....the bigger muscles will pull blood out of the smaller muscle if worked after.

When doing Upright Rows raise the bar to around nipple height. this will reduce stress on your wrist and shoulders. I would also lean very slightly forward as well, very very slightly forward. You can also perform Upright rows one handed. You can use dumbbells or a low Pulley. If using a low pulley stand close to the pulley so the cable comes as close to straight up as possible.

I never advocate doing flys, front raises or side raises. I only advocate Bent over Flys because they target the weak and under developed rear delts(shoulder). I like to do bent over flys lying on a incline bench set around a 45 degree angle. Here are some examples. One Armed Bent Over Cable Fly; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPQY0aWBIR0 with Dumbbells; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdrh-xBr20c...feature=related

Dumbbells are awesome. The extra stabilization makes them the best for many movements. One arm Bent Over rows are a favorite of mine, Example for One Arm Dumbbel Rows starts at time 2:41. A demo for Bent Over Dumbbell Flys Starts at time 5:01; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgUsXA4JX0w I suggest keeping the weight ratio at approx 1:1 for chest to back i.e. use approx the same weight you would Dumbbell Chest Press ideally.


and do not forget to add weight during the next workout if you get all 3 of your sets for a solid 15 reps.

I am glad you liked the articles and Keep up the Excellent Work!


Cool again thanks. BFL is the reason I did the exercises in that order and assumed it was the exhaustion factor behind his reasoning but this makes perfect sense. I never of thought of the one-armed bent over flys using the cable but I will add them or using the dumbells next time. I'll let you know who the rows go as well.

When I get a chance I am going to grab some dumbells and get the magnetic plates you linked to be able to use them more and easily.

I have a fixed window in the morning before work that I have to get my workouts in starting no later than 7:30 and leaves me about 40 minutes so I have to be pretty structured and keep with it. Morning coffee is my salvation, ha.
avsfan
QUOTE (Randy Reed @ Friday, June 12th, 2009, 5:53 AM) *
Cool again thanks. BFL is the reason I did the exercises in that order and assumed it was the exhaustion factor behind his reasoning but this makes perfect sense. I never of thought of the one-armed bent over flys using the cable but I will add them or using the dumbells next time. I'll let you know who the rows go as well.

When I get a chance I am going to grab some dumbells and get the magnetic plates you linked to be able to use them more and easily.

I have a fixed window in the morning before work that I have to get my workouts in starting no later than 7:30 and leaves me about 40 minutes so I have to be pretty structured and keep with it. Morning coffee is my salvation, ha.


Your very welcome!. I am going to go study EAS's BFL program later. I have to say I am not very impressed with it so far.

Cable Bent Over Fly are awesome because you have better resistance at the bottom of the exercise. The Dumbbell Bent Over Flys will require increased stabilization. You have two excellent exercises to choose from for the rear delts. You can do Bent Over Flys with the cable or dumbbells. Like the article said 2 or 3 core exercises to choose from is all you need.

When looking for dumbbells you will only need to purchase them in 10lb increments if you get a pair of 5lb platemates. That is going to be half the price to buy your dumbbell set.smile.gif Then you can rotate dumbbell and machine trainning. awesome! and do not buy rubber coated dumbbells! I like basic iron hex dumbbells, they are cheap and last forever.

Here is something you may like; http://www.frankzane.com/EQUIPMENT.htm
avsfan
So I have examined BFL's program.

1. ) Chest/Shoulders/Triceps/Back/Biceps

This is Push followed by Pull. They simply are combining the first two days of a 3 day rotation/split program. Many three day programs go push, pull, and then legs. I really do not like BFL's approach here. It lacks balance and order. It shows a lack of regard for muscle size prioritization. They want you to exert energy on Shoulders and Triceps before you work the largest muscle in your upper body, horrible. This routine is not well thought out. It is just the first two days of a three day program slapped together. The use of useless exerscies, excessive exercises and a complex rep scheme make me very disappointed in the EAS BFL workout program. I do like there simple straight forward nutrition advice. I am not big on the six meals a day though. The amount of meals a day can very from person to person and BFL's claim that six meals a day increases metabolism is unfounded.
Randy Reed
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Thursday, June 11th, 2009, 2:32 PM) *
....Clint?



QUOTE (avsfan @ Friday, June 12th, 2009, 10:57 PM) *
So I have examined BFL's program.

1. ) Chest/Shoulders/Triceps/Back/Biceps

This is Push followed by Pull. They simply are combining the first two days of a 3 day rotation/split program. Many three day programs go push, pull, and then legs. I really do not like BFL's approach here. It lacks balance and order. It shows a lack of regard for muscle size prioritization. They want you to exert energy on Shoulders and Triceps before you work the largest muscle in your upper body, horrible. This routine is not well thought out. It is just the first two days of a three day program slapped together. The use of useless exerscies, excessive exercises and a complex rep scheme make me very disappointed in the EAS BFL workout program. I do like there simple straight forward nutrition advice. I am not big on the six meals a day though. The amount of meals a day can very from person to person and BFL's claim that six meals a day increases metabolism is unfounded.


I think it's great and simple for a noob that knows nothing about working out, dieting etc. It has had immense results for alot of people as well.

Here's a link to another's opinion,

http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TPBodyforLife.html

With that said, once you have some basic knowledge, strength etc. i'm sure the program could be imporoved upon which is what i'm looking for. The advice you've given thus far is making an immense difference, well, if you call sore as hell an immense difference, lol.
Randy Reed
QUOTE (Randy Reed @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 2:27 PM) *
Thursday
Treadmill

Friday
Leg press 3x15x150
Leg Curls 3x15x80
Calves press 3x15x150
Janda crunches 3x15 plus 3 more
Hyper ext bench 3x15x25 (holding 25 lb plate)
3x planks ( I saw the video and gave it a try)

Dratj
QUOTE (avsfan @ Monday, June 8th, 2009, 4:57 PM) *
Socal you need to get dratj on track, smile.gif.


no doubt! I've still been working out but a bit less than b4. The wife wants me home a bit more, so I don't workout mon and wed anymore, golf season is on, so that takes up at least one day. Trying to lift at least 3x a week tho. I'm fluctuating between 203 and 205 now. I don't have the discipline to eat less carbs and cut calories too much to get shredded.

So, don't worry avsfan, i'm still in the game, been lurking the thread just havn't been posting.
Love4hockey
I was browsing slickdeals.net this morning and came across this deal on Optimum Nutrion 100% why protein; http://www.fitrx.com/fitrx/package_select....p;orderbyprice=. Use the code "ON2009" Two tubs of 5lbs protein for $66. This is the cheapest I have ever seen it. Usually I pay about $45 for 5 lbs at bodybuilding.com. I decided to try different flovors and went with cookies and cream and double rich chocolate.
socalpoker_j
Dratj,

Three days a week is all you need for strength training. Check out the Texas Method or an Advanced 5x5.
Dratj
QUOTE (socalpoker_j @ Sunday, June 14th, 2009, 3:10 PM) *
Dratj,

Three days a week is all you need for strength training. Check out the Texas Method or an Advanced 5x5.


thx, just reading up on it now. it looks complicated, I'm going to have to read it in more detail when I'm not sleepy lol.
avsfan
QUOTE (Randy Reed @ Saturday, June 13th, 2009, 9:28 AM) *
I think it's great and simple for a noob that knows nothing about working out, dieting etc. It has had immense results for alot of people as well.

Here's a link to another's opinion,

http://www.hussmanfitness.org/html/TPBodyforLife.html

With that said, once you have some basic knowledge, strength etc. i'm sure the program could be improved upon which is what i'm looking for. The advice you've given thus far is making an immense difference, well, if you call sore as hell an immense difference, lol.


I checked out the link;

The program is effective because it is a controlled diet and the workout program compounds those results by burning a significant amount of calories, that is why they have you doing alot of different exercises..they throw the varied rep range in for good measure. when viewed as 12 week program with a goal ot getting in shape the program would be effective for average ppl. However many users will plateau and see diminishing returns after the initial twelve weeks. I don't really want to dwell on this program. I really believe they could simplify and optimize this routine to something that gets excellent short term results while teaching ppl better fundamental principals and ideas that set ppl up for an effective lifetime of fitness/trainning. the routine really propagates alot of negative training philosophies/ideas that will lead ppl to poor decision in trainning later on.

I also found it funny that the site refers to a Dr who did the program. Having a doctor do a program does not make the program Scientific. It is also amusing how they constantly propagate the idea that many small meals a day boost your metabolism. That has never scientifically been prove. Eating lots of small meal does satiate and provide a steady steam of nutrients for you body though.

fwiw I really don't like being negative on things.

I spent alot of time at Dr. Coopers Aerobic center in Dallas as a kid so I care way to much about the real science behind fitness and trainning.

Dr Cooper; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Cooper
avsfan
So how do you like Planks? A good goal is to hold the Plank for 60-90 seconds. I t would be fun to try holding a plank Immediately after each set of Janda sit ups, sometimes. wink.gif
avsfan
QUOTE (Dratj @ Saturday, June 13th, 2009, 7:00 PM) *
no doubt! I've still been working out but a bit less than b4. The wife wants me home a bit more, so I don't workout mon and wed anymore, golf season is on, so that takes up at least one day. Trying to lift at least 3x a week tho. I'm fluctuating between 203 and 205 now. I don't have the discipline to eat less carbs and cut calories too much to get shredded.

So, don't worry avsfan, i'm still in the game, been lurking the thread just havn't been posting.


Like Socal said 3 times a week is all you need. I really want to see you meet your goals. I believe a program like Socal suggest can get you to the results you want quicker an more effectively than what you had/have been doing. I have been tinkering with a avsfan 5x5 program. I will post it here soon, perhaps you may want to give it a try. I am studying the history of the 5x5 program and have had some interesting ideas.
dapokerbum
Had some extra time on sunday after golfing, so I went and did swimming drills for 30 minutes and then I wanted to check the status of my shoulder (for those who missed out my shoulder was all out of whack starting in January and I couldn't do any sort of incline presses or anything and is really the thing that started me towards the triathlon training). Anyway, I went to the incline press and tried the bar and everything felt fine, so then I put on 10lbs each side and still felt fine, so then I did 3x10x95lbs. Felt pretty good, so I went over and did 3x10x20lbs of dumbbell flys. Then I tried some Janda Situps and I think I like those, and finished up with some stretching.
zimmer4141
First lift in over a week. Got off the diet last week when I went to Vegas, then had a ton of friends in town. Now that all the craziness and fun is over, I can get back down to business. Basically just repeated my lift from last Friday to get back into it, had no issues, all felt good.

I weighed myself today, I'm at 246 lbs, so I managed to not gain any weight over the last week which I'm happy about it, I think my numerical goal is to get below 225 by the end of August.
avsfan
QUOTE (dapokerbum @ Monday, June 15th, 2009, 9:30 AM) *
Had some extra time on sunday after golfing, so I went and did swimming drills for 30 minutes and then I wanted to check the status of my shoulder (for those who missed out my shoulder was all out of whack starting in January and I couldn't do any sort of incline presses or anything and is really the thing that started me towards the triathlon training). Anyway, I went to the incline press and tried the bar and everything felt fine, so then I put on 10lbs each side and still felt fine, so then I did 3x10x95lbs. Felt pretty good, so I went over and did 3x10x20lbs of dumbbell flys. Then I tried some Janda Situps and I think I like those, and finished up with some stretching.


If you have problems in the future with your shoulder/s. This may help; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ONHZmsFec

This should help too; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUcjOIZc80c...&feature=iv especially take note of how to position your arms to protect your shoulders demonstrated at time 2:58
dolfan
(Generic excuses for not working out for the past few days blah blah blah)

One thing that I'm really happy about is that after being "off" for four days I feel all lazy and whatnot. It's nice to still be motivated, because this is usually the time of the year that I just start going, "fuck it, I can skip today" and then realize I've gone twice in like three weeks.
Suited_Up
QUOTE (zimmer4141 @ Monday, June 15th, 2009, 7:07 PM) *
First lift in over a week. Got off the diet last week when I went to Vegas, then had a ton of friends in town. Now that all the craziness and fun is over, I can get back down to business. Basically just repeated my lift from last Friday to get back into it, had no issues, all felt good.

I weighed myself today, I'm at 246 lbs, so I managed to not gain any weight over the last week which I'm happy about it, I think my numerical goal is to get below 225 by the end of August.


Somehow I didn't gain any weight in Vegas, and the few days after I got home (not working out or eating all that great yet...) I managed to drop a couple extra.

Can you lose muscle in only 2 weeks? Weighed in today at my lowest in quite some time. Had a sore throat for awhile though so I haven't been back to the gym since I got home.
zimmer4141
QUOTE (Suited_Up @ Tuesday, June 16th, 2009, 10:17 AM) *
Somehow I didn't gain any weight in Vegas, and the few days after I got home (not working out or eating all that great yet...) I managed to drop a couple extra.

Can you lose muscle in only 2 weeks? Weighed in today at my lowest in quite some time. Had a sore throat for awhile though so I haven't been back to the gym since I got home.


I doubt it. Honestly, I think it's because I just didn't eat that much while out there. I wasn't burning as many calories because I didn't do anything that physical, but I also didn't take in that many, so I'm not gonna gain a ton of weight.
Randy Reed
QUOTE (avsfan @ Monday, June 15th, 2009, 12:34 AM) *
I checked out the link;

The program is effective because it is a controlled diet and the workout program compounds those results by burning a significant amount of calories, that is why they have you doing alot of different exercises..they throw the varied rep range in for good measure. when viewed as 12 week program with a goal ot getting in shape the program would be effective for average ppl. However many users will plateau and see diminishing returns after the initial twelve weeks. I don't really want to dwell on this program. I really believe they could simplify and optimize this routine to something that gets excellent short term results while teaching ppl better fundamental principals and ideas that set ppl up for an effective lifetime of fitness/trainning. the routine really propagates alot of negative training philosophies/ideas that will lead ppl to poor decision in trainning later on.

I also found it funny that the site refers to a Dr who did the program. Having a doctor do a program does not make the program Scientific. It is also amusing how they constantly propagate the idea that many small meals a day boost your metabolism. That has never scientifically been prove. Eating lots of small meal does satiate and provide a steady steam of nutrients for you body though.

fwiw I really don't like being negative on things.

I spent alot of time at Dr. Coopers Aerobic center in Dallas as a kid so I care way to much about the real science behind fitness and trainning.

Dr Cooper; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Cooper


I wasn't promoting the program per se. I was 40 and had never worked out in my life and read the book. I had pretty amazing results for 9 months and learned alot but an injury, gym closure and other stuff derailed me. After gaining it all back and more over 8 years I started again in late Feb. I was having decent results but in a short time switching up to your regimine I have seeing results like never before. Kudos to you and thanks, seriously.

I also have been meaning to ask about the small meal thing. It has worked for me and always see all the body builders in the mags do a variation of it as well. Do you have anything specific you reccomend?


QUOTE (avsfan @ Monday, June 15th, 2009, 12:42 AM) *
So how do you like Planks? A good goal is to hold the Plank for 60-90 seconds. I t would be fun to try holding a plank Immediately after each set of Janda sit ups, sometimes. wink.gif


I held them for about 1 minute but I'll try doing that next time.

Also I don't know how accurate my scale is but it has a body fat calculator that I figured out how to work a few weeks back. I was bummed to when it registered
21.6% which I have a hard time believing. I think 17% is average and geez, thats rough. I did register 168 even for the first time ever weight wise this morning and 19.4% body fat so I guess it's coming down, but still, ughh.

Randy Reed
Sat- Treadmill (20 minutes HIIT)

Sun rode the bike 23.5 miles

*Chest press with dumbells 25lbs. (Got better at it and no pain so I'm going to add a little weight next time.)
MidRows 3x15x100
*Shoulder press with machine (adjusted the seat and angle and it hit the shoulders better) 3x15x70
*Upright rows 3x15 (skipped)
*bent over flys 3x15 (used the machine and did 40 lbs) it worked great and I could feel it the next day, also adding a little weight here.)
Tri-extension 3x15x80 (still tough to finish but I did.)
Weighted arm curls (bi's) 3x15x100 I am an idiot. I took the hand gribs off the outrigger and used it, duh. It took me a while to get the angle
but it worked pretty well. 40 lbs, one handed. I did do a set od hammer curls using 10 lb weights afterwards, 25 reps just trying to get the exercise down
and work the muscles.

Monday tanned. Yep, i have tanning bed beotches.
Ron_Mexico
did 41 minutes of cardio then did some leg exercises, step ups

it's something
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