Shitstick?

That kind of toilet humor is beneath Spademan, I think. Must be a bad week in paradise.

You're not normal

Charlie Parker quote I just came across:

I read once that Charlie Parker used to get shit thrown at him when he was coming up, and had like no natural talent, and then started practicing like 17 hours a day, learned to play the sax flawlessly in every single key, and became one of the two greatest ever. Impressive story.

I don't know why you chose this thread, but I enjoyed these posts. Off to Wiki to read about Charlie Parker!

Dutch, who do you consider as the other "greatest ever?" And are you referring to sax players, jazz players, or everything?

Personally I would have Bird up there as #1 of like anyting, and I really do mean that. He was the 'greatest artist' of the 20th century, in any medium, in my humble opinion.





Read/download/listen to this. Included is a very nice booklet that probably has better stuff to say than wiki (not that wiki is bad, I also browse probably half a dozen or more wiki articles daily, if not hourly. Anyways, this:




Dutch gets credit for the sharebee link, which vastly improved my rapidshare link. It's still my upload though, so it still has the scans and everything, which incidentally is where I found that Parker quote that began this discussion 3 posts ago.

The Parker quote has a very Zen feeling to it, and I don't mean 'Zen' in the bastardized version of the word that is used on anti-wrinkle-cream or whatever. One of, if not the single most important and basic ideas to Zen Buddhism is that thinking intellectually is the opposite of the correct path. The idea is to neither think or to not-think. The underlying 'truth' inherent to Buddhism is that salvation/enlightenment is found by just sitting; that there is no answer, and that is the answer (and at the same time is not the answer, because there is no answer).

So, it might sound reasonably simple or whatever (in truth it's actually kind of the most simple thing possible), but analytically explaining it (which I just did) is almost the exact opposite of how one should undertake the study of Zen. What I'm trying to say is, the deep, true understanding of the nature of the universe (enlightenment, nirvana) is painfully rare, and is absolutely not common among Buddhist monks even.

Maybe sort of an analogy would be that reaching nirvana in Buddhism is similar to how Catholics view the Pope's relationship with God: singular and miraculous. I hope that doesn't confuse my point, because there is not a limit on how many people can become enlightened at any time and there is no 'miracle' about it; precisely the opposite in fact. Also it has nothing to do with knowing "God," unless you define God extremely strictly as 'the true nature of everything.' But the similarity is in the sort of 'holiness' of the Pope and the holiness of an enlightened being, as well as in the rarity. Some Buddhists believe that there hasn't been a truly enlightened person in centuries. The years during and following the life and death of a Buddha (such as Gautama Buddha 2500 years ago) are considered times of great enlightenment among his followers. Tibetans though, for example, believe the Dalai Lama to be a bodhisattva (enlightened person) who, out of compassion, has himself reborn in human form (as the D.L.) to help spread compassion and understanding.

In general though, reaching enlightenment both signals and is the single path to: ending the infinite cycle of death and rebirth that every creature undergoes. Upon reaching enlightenment, that person's "whateverness" coalesces with the universe or something (unlike Western religion, Zen Buddhism is almost wholly uninterested in the specifics of things like that - when you reach enlightenment you simply "understand," and there's no way to explain that any better). Anyways, the Dalai Lama's followers believe him to be an enlightened being who has foregone that in order to be reborn and spread the Dharma (the Buddha's teachings).

And that is an extremely long, rambling answer to a short question (I did get the thread back on track though!).


Also possibly of interest to you brvheart: I recently read a few articles explaining that many or most Buddhists of various sects and standings have agreed that Christ was an enlightened being, and that his teachings are therefore 'wonderful' or 'perfect' or whatever word you want to use. Of the utmost validity and truth.

Buddhist's opinions on Jesus are pretty irrelevant to me, but thanks for thinking about me. Also, thanks for the CP talk.

The more I learn about Parker, the more plausible he is as the greatest. I think Miles Davis is probably my favorite of all jazzmen, and Coltrane is probably my number 1 saxophonist. I also am a huge proponent of Monk and Oscar Peterson, but as a one-time jazz pianist, I'm somewhat biased to that instrument. I think an easy argument could be made for Parker as the greatest of the sax or in general, but I suppose I was implying sax-only. I don't really listen to enough jazz anymore to have a combative position or anything. Not really measuring the importance of their various contributions to the greater escalation of the art, I just happen to enjoy listening to Coltrane a bit more on most days, and if pushed I would probably tentatively slot Parker at #4, after Miles, Monk and Coltrane.

But in terms of players who interest me as humans, I think Parker would have a shot at the title, if I looked into it more. When he talked about the way he thought about music...it's sort of awesome to me.

Did you read that booklet that came with the Massey Hall album? It has some pretty good stuff in it. The next thing you should do is seek out some film of him playing. There isn't a lot of it in existence, but that of course adds a level of sentimentality to it, which isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

Here's a jumping-off-point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XEk_-npJ10



Even though it's a ballad he lets loose, so don't worry. Bird comes in at 1:00.

Some of the film you'll find of him is "lip-synching" over his own recordings, so just be vigilant. The one I posted is just slightly out-of-sync, but it's not a big problem. I'm quoting myself here from an older post, about watching him play:


His style of staying almost perfectly still makes the notes coming out of his sax seem all the more....what's a good word? - transcendent.



P.S. You should check out some of the McCoy Tyner albums I posted over the last month or so in the music thread - his style is a bit similar to Oscar Peterson, and to sum him up in one word, he's outstanding. Oh also grab the Cannonball Adderley I upped. Bobby Timmons crushes faces (on piano). Really unique, soulful style.

Just read it now. God, Bud Powell was so ****ing ridiculous. Well, I guess they all were. It's impressive to me that Powell is able to strike me as the ridiculous human in a story where pretty much everyone was drunk, stoned, and basically inattentive to the masterwork they were creating. I particularly like that Diz was trying to watch the fight all night. Or that Bird showed up without a sax. Damnit, they all win.

Yeah, and another thing that kind of blew my mind was to learn that they didn't practice together, even once, before the show. Oh and also, not only was Bud Powell just out of a mental hospital, he was completely drunk during the show.