Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t140/t280
(Ante: t25)
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t20652
UTG+1: t8221
MP1: t24114
MP2: t3772
MP3: t10007
CO: t18696
Hero: t23202
SB: t21326
BB: t8951

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with A 5
6 folds, Hero raises to t700, SB calls t560 (pot was t1345), BB folds.

Flop: A 6 4 (t1905, 2 players)
SB checks


Villain here is 3.6/3.6, but only over about 30 hands so you can't take much from it.

What is our plan for the hand? What is villain's calling range preflop? How will villain respond to a c/bet on this flop with his range?

The standard line here is to bet $1200 and fold to a raise. Does that maximise our equity on the hand?

Please don't just say "I bet $___."

Tbh, i think the standard line is checking behind here, or at least that's what i've garnered from 2+2.

Reminds me a lot of this thread, obviously this is a different situation as it's live and he knows who the blind is, but i think the discussion is relevant to situations like this in general.

I would bet 1200 and call if villain decides to raise. The flop is draw heavy so flush draws are in his range. If a non-heart or paint falls on the turn, I'd call another bet by villain as I don't think that a big ace is in his range as that would be a hand that he would snap you off with preflop. If a non-heart 5,3,7,A came off the turn, then I'd think about shoving the turn.

Here is my thoughts about the hand: SB probably doesnt hold an Ace since the natural play would be a raise if he decides to defend his blind. The same goes for all pairs. I think that he'd play back at you with KQ, KJ as well but I wouldn't be suprised if he flat called with those hands. However he's most likely holding suited connectors. I'd lead out here and if he calls, I'd assume he flopped the flush draw. If he raise me I'd still assume he's playing the flush draw and tries to get control of the hand and get you to check the turn and give him a free card (I myself would often make this play since your relatively deep stacks allowe it). That's why I might re-raise him if he raises on the flop. If he fires back it is clear that I read him wrong and I'm done with the hand.

I don't think he has suited connectors here often at all. He's played 1/30 hands so far. Someone that likes suited connectors isn't usually going to play that tight.

When he called preflop I was putting him on a range somewhere in the region of:
55-TT, A9-AQ, KQ, and maybe some hands like JTs, QJs, T9s. I didn't see the flush draw as being a problem often enough for it to be a concern.
Some of those hands he reraises preflop, some of them he folds preflop (his range could be a lot tighter actually, I just don't know). That's just roughly where I had him. I don't expect him to ever show up with a hand like 75s here, and I really thought that mid pairs and mid strength aces were a very big part of his range.

This is obviously a good flop for me, but betting here would almost be bluffing against his range. I'm WA/WB and he's folding most non aces, but if I check the flop he can lead the turn with a good % of his range, or he might call a bet with a good % of his range. I also give KQ or JT a chance to catch a pair. The only downside is that sometimes he'll catch a set on the turn or have a free card with a flush draw.

In all, I wanted to try and play a small pot here. Minimise the loss against a better hand, and maximise equity against weaker hands.

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with A 5
6 folds, Hero raises to t700, SB calls t560 (pot was t1345), BB folds.

Flop: A 6 4 (t1905, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: J (t1905, 2 players)
SB bets t1905

(He bet it quickly)

I check behind on the flop like you did. I do that a lot with weak aces and middle pair, as I hate getting raised in those spots. The turn I just call and see the river. You can be pretty sure by his action on the river whether he has something or not. A raise on the turn turns the hand into a bluff as he's not calling with anything you are beating.

Also, I don't really agree that the villian doesn't turn up here with a big ace very often. I think a lot of players just call preflop when they are so deep with hands like AJ/AT because they want to keep the pot small and don't want opponents calling their reraise and seeing a flop with position.

I agree with hijacked. I think this is a good spot for pot control. Your flop check is good, exactly what I would have done. His turn bet could mean he's putting you on nothing. Either wway your hand is too big to fold and not big enough to raise. Calling and re evaluating on the river is really teh only acceptable play.

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I think the only thing you can really do without a strong read is too call the turn.

Raising is a complete zero play (TY Joe Seebok) and although you don't have a heart i think your hand is slightly too good to fold here.

If he bets the river, i'm probably folding though.

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with A 5
6 folds, Hero raises to t700, SB calls t560 (pot was t1345), BB folds.

Flop: A 6 4 (t1905, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: J (t1905, 2 players)
SB bets t1905, Hero calls.

(I agree with everyone about the turn call. Raising there is overvaluing my hand, and folding is undervaluing it).

River: K (t5715, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero...

At this point I beat virtually no part of his range, but he almost certainly doesn't have the Qh, and the Th is quite unlikely imo. His range is probably a hand like KQ (or another random turn bluffing hand), a small-mid pair (probably with a heart), or an ace. I guess he could also have a hand like 7h8h.

I called the turn for value, but is this a good opportunity to turn a made hand into a bluff?

In my opinion, not really.

I think checking behind the flop then check/calling the turn is not going to give your river bet much respect.

Your hand has some showdown value, imo you should just hoist the white flag and hope your pair is good.

Personally, I like the idea of either checking behind and grabbing a free card (that may result in a str8 draw) or betting 600-800 into the pot to try and get a feel for where you are. I realise it's going to be easy for the SB to call that but, if he calls, you will be fairly certain he's on a draw or has a monster, same thing if he raises. If raised, you have to decide whether or not he's got it and either fold or shove over the top. If he just calls, you'll see another card he acts first, so you'll find out if he's going to come out swinging or not. If not, you're probably good, as a flat call then a check usually is a draw and you can 3/4 pot it (or more) to make him pay for his draw.

But I like checking, as you get a free card and he's got no info on you.

Am I totally off-base or is my line reasonably coherent?

Ah...just read the results...

I think the bet on the turn is scary but callable and the check on the end leads me to believe he has a middling heart and something like 88-TT. You're probably beat, but do you want to risk more chips when even the 2H beats you? No, I check behind on the river, come what may...

Question:

If you are villain here, what is my range on the flop and turn? If I bet the river here, what is my range?

It depends a hell of a lot on the villain and his perception of you and poker in general imo.

One of the things mentioned in the 2+2 thread i linked to is that checking behind on this flop texture made it obvious to the blind that you have a showdownable hand because you would have bet most of your hopeless hands on an A-high board.

Putting myself in his shoes, i'd say that on the flop checking behind means you could have a middling-high pair or maybe a flush draw chosing the free card. Tbh, i don't think checking behind the flop would make him think you had a weak ace here.

When you call the turn bet, he's probably thinking you've either got a high heart, two face cards including a jack w/wo a heart, or a stubborn pocket pair.

If you bet the river he's probably going to put you on a flush, but with the flop check i think your hand looks a bit weak and is liable to get called by low hearts because it's taking up less of his stack to call.

I'm happy to check down on that river. If he has be beat, I get some info on what he's holding at least and I think there's a solid chance you are ahead. You would have to convince me of a very tight range for opponent in order for me to agree with betting as the right play.

I think the villain should put you on a range of any pair, T9s and up. After you call the turn bet, I'd put you on a low ace or possibly a flush. If you bet the river, I wouldn't figure for you to ever bluff in that spot and give you lots of credit because a pair here has showdown value and you would be turning it into a bluff and there's no way you call the turn with absolutely nothing.

Interesting hand...

I understand the logic behind the flop check, but am not sure I 100% agree it's always the right play... A lot of times a flop check forces you to call two bets if the villain bets the turn/river, when you could have gotten away more cheaply on the flop if he were to check/raise. As long as you haven't been playing too loose villain will give you credit for the Ace, and not c/r here very often without a better hand that at least has you drawing slim, so I think a flop bet is ok. That said, I think a check on the flop is okay if you think the villain is pretty tight and would be unwilling to fire two bullets with a worse hand on the turn/river. (ie. you can then safely fold on the river if you don't improve). I usually bet the flop here, to define/protect my hand; but it's close - checking isn't bad either...

Villain's bet on the turn is very strong, a little more than the size of the pot if I'm not mistaken... Honestly, I think you are probably beat here... He appears to be playing fairly tight, so I actually give him credit for at least a stronger ace, if not two pair or a set. He did call out of the small blind preflop, which is a pretty strong call since he's oop, and has the bb behind him... He might have a mid pair or bluff here, but I doubt it... I think you're beat, possibly drawing dead, and could even fold. His large bet to me screams "I have a big hand, but am scared of the hearts." Of course if you think he's capable of making a bluff like this then you should call and see what he does on the river...

Given my read on the turn, I think you are still beat on the river. As said before, I would've strongly considered folding the turn, but since you called I think his river check appears to confirm my previous read that he had a strong hand that was afraid of hearts. Plus, it really looks like you could have been chasing hearts, since you just called on the turn. I'd bet about 3/4 the pot here and try to move him off the better hand. I really don't think he will call very often here without a heart, and I think there is a very good chance you are beat, and a very good chance he doesn't have a heart. The only thing that kinda sux is that it was the Kh that fell on the river, so you can't represent that you were chasing the nut flush on the turn, which might set off an alarm if you bet; still, I'd try it though.

While playing I would probably bet, but I think a check behind is actually better. He is obviously playing tight and I can't think of a hand in his range that we can actually extract value from on this flop. Also, we definitely cannot stand a reraise. If he's slowplaying, he will most likely lead the turn in an attempt to get value. If he is not, you may be able to extract a little value from hands within his range like jacks who can check-call a reasonably river bet.

I think betting this flop also has merit though, and it is actually very close.

I checked behind and villain won with 9x9h.

Wow, another misread by me... I still think most villain's wouldn't bet the pot with this hand on the turn, but I was wrong this time and will be wrong again!

I know with 9x9h I'd check/call the turn for sure, and try to get through the hand cheaply in his spot... I definitely would hate to be moved off my possible 11 outs if I am beat on the turn by betting out and getting raised...

To be honest I thought he was strong too, and obviously if we'd bet the flop we would have won the pot. However I think simo's line here is good.

He is not going to get value from villain's range on the flop.
He is getting some on the turn because his flop check will induce a bluff from some pairs.
He is not getting any value by betting on the river and why risk getting raised off our hand.