A 4 in MP3 on a fairly TAG table, though this hand was quite loose.

ANTES/BLINDS
ramlosa1 posts blind ($0.50), raffe41 posts blind ($1).

PRE-FLOP
Beavis23 calls $1, iwinulose x calls $1, tonyla1 folds, Mardo303 calls $1, akishoreFCP calls $1, livinitup0 folds, 2quat4 calls $1, Scatt_Man calls $1, ramlosa1 calls $0.50, raffe41 checks.

(pot = $8 )

FLOP [board cards 8 ,3 ,Q ]
ramlosa1 checks, raffe41 checks, Beavis23 bets $1, iwinulose x calls $1, Mardo303 folds, akishoreFCP bets $2, ...

hallelujah!

ok, i know almost EVERYONE in this situation calls here, but a few thoughts just ran through my head:

1. if someone is on a flush draw, they're going to call two anyway most likely--especially the ones with a flush draw plus pair. the king-high flush draw will also likely pay me off by possibly three-betting for a free card or three-betting for value if a lot of people call.

2. a made lower flush is going to damn well pay me off. might as well get full value.

3. if a lot of people fold behind me, they would have folded anyway, and i'm not getting overcalls anyway. PLUS, if a lot of people fold and i raise a blank turn (after calling the flop), my raise just screams slowplayed nut flush--isn't it super obvious? worse is if the turn brings a spade and the bettor/caller(s) fold to a bet/raise since they have no spade! (they would have called a raise on the flop, and i missed out on bets.)

4. if people are going to call behind me, they'll most likely call two cold unless they're really weak.

5. it'll be so obvious if i raise the turn. damn, i hate being super-readable. what other hand would slowplay this flop and then raise the turn? a set? i very much doubt it (everyone fastplays sets on monochrone flops so that they don't give free cards and also because they don't believe the bettor actually has a flush--they put him on a flush draw). a lower flush? not usually. damn, it's just so obvious...

so with those thoughts, i raised. was this okay?

aseem

i understand your thinking, but i think i'm going for the raise on the turn...if the turn is a blank, there's a chance that FD's are check/folding if they're not K high, but the bettor would still probably bet into you regardless. I don't disagree with fastplaying it for deception, but I think it'll cost you turn/river bets. if you call and the action repeats on the turn, you pump it and they're getting better odds to pay you off.

How's the table? Is it filled with players (More precisely, this specific bettor) who would actually bet a non-nut flush draw? I doubt it, he probably has made hand of some kind that you're way ahead of.

You make a nice argument, but I go for the slowplay here anyway. First, I'm not the preflop aggressor, so checking or calling the flop doesn't really give anything away. Also, depending on what turn card falls, it may actually confuse them as to what you had. I did this with an ace-high flush, and the board paired deuces on the turn. The original post-flop aggressor actually asked me if I had the third deuce.

Yeah, if someone calls the flop and a fourth spade falls, you may miss out on some bets if someone doesn't have a spade. On the other hand, if they DO have a spade, they will probably stay in until showdown (Especially with a spade above, say, 10), because your lack of strength until the turn says they may actually be good.

ok, i understand your points. maybe at a more aggressive table, or a weaker table (where people will call down with even a 6-high flush draw in that case), or a more short-handed pot, the raise might be correct for deception, but i see what you guys are saying--the missed bets outweigh the added deception here.

aseem