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Moneyball16
I cant find a HH right now but I feel lost in spots like this.

200nl 9 handed

100bb stacks

BB isnt terrible but is still too loose

I raise in ep to 7 with AK, BB calls.

The flop comes 442 rainbow or something like that.

He checks and I check.

I check because I think a bet would only get better hands to call and worse hands to fold. But after I check the hand it is very hard to play ui against an opponent that inst passive enough that they would just be content to check down most of their hands whether they have showdown value or not.

What should I be doing in this spot?
mikeysong
you should be betting because if he's smart he'll bet turn and push u off AK w/worse hands
sholden
QUOTE (Moneyball16 @ Saturday, December 22nd, 2007, 9:08 PM) *
I check because I think a bet would only get better hands to call and worse hands to fold.


Worse hands have outs, letting them draw free isn't so great, if they fold then you win the same amount you would win if it checked down all the way...
NoBBiR
Bet paired flops all the time in this situation. It's so very unlikely to have hit your opponent. If that player is good enough to put you on AK and call and then bet the turn with a worse hand, then hats off to them. Not betting here prevents you from getting action when you bet flops with AA or KK like this. Then everyone is like, "Oh, he c-bet the flop, he has AA or KK and obviously not AK because he doesn't c-bet AK."

Not to mention, you're basically buying a free pass to the river when you c-bet the flop with position to see if you pick up top pair. Hardly anyone is going to check/call the flop and donk the turn with ANYTHING that could be worthy of a flop call.
Moneyball16
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Sunday, December 23rd, 2007, 1:29 AM) *
Not betting here prevents you from getting action when you bet flops with AA or KK like this. Then everyone is like, "Oh, he c-bet the flop, he has AA or KK and obviously not AK because he doesn't c-bet AK."

Not to mention, you're basically buying a free pass to the river when you c-bet the flop with position to see if you pick up top pair. Hardly anyone is going to check/call the flop and donk the turn with ANYTHING that could be worthy of a flop call.


If I dont bet the flop here all the time it will also help my fold equity the times where I bet with K high or suited connectors and get better hands to fold.

Checking behind on the flop and calling reasonable turn bets would get me to the river just as cheap without the risk of getting c/r or c/c donked into on the turn.

Im not saying that checking the flop is better Im just making some arguments.
Royal_Tour
if its 200 nl, blinds are 1/2 . if its fulring i raise a bit more pf. also I C-bet a lot of the time in fullring if its 3 or less players.

this being the perfect spot for a C-bet.

the only time u want to check here is if you're playing a tricky loose opponent who can c/r with air if you've been c-betting often.

but since its 1/2NL there isnt that many player trying to get tricky. so Cbet that bitch
Royal_Tour
QUOTE (Moneyball16 @ Saturday, December 22nd, 2007, 9:08 PM) *
I check because I think a bet would only get better hands to call and worse hands to fold.



just noticed this. You assume you're ahead u should bet and win the pot. You cant expect to turn every big pocket pair into a monster.

the best thing that could happen here is he has K,Q and the turn is a K and you get some value. but in reality you should be winning this pot and moving on
ROBBBIGG
AK on that board I typically double barrel (won't call a raise) and c//f river without improving (heads up and 6 max, I dunno how to play full ring)
AimHigher
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Sunday, December 23rd, 2007, 8:29 AM) *
Bet paired flops all the time in this situation. It's so very unlikely to have hit your opponent. If that player is good enough to put you on AK and call and then bet the turn with a worse hand, then hats off to them. Not betting here prevents you from getting action when you bet flops with AA or KK like this. Then everyone is like, "Oh, he c-bet the flop, he has AA or KK and obviously not AK because he doesn't c-bet AK."


I agree with this 100% (but not the next paragraph because he is OOP after the flop).

Not c-betting when you miss and betting when you hit is a really bad way to play, you should be blending bets when you miss with bets when you flop monsters. This will enable you to win more pots and get paid more frequently on your monsters.

I try to use opponent's style, the texture of the flop and position as factors to determine when to c-bet, but I always do it ALOT. Recently I have been incorporating stack sizes as well. I have made the mistake in the past of c-betting with air into shortstacks and then been faced with a shove and an obligation to call due to pot odds.

Also I think C-betting with medium strength hands on boards you are likely to get reraised on is a bad idea because your hand can't stand a reraise (thank you card runners!).
NoBBiR
QUOTE (Moneyball16 @ Sunday, December 23rd, 2007, 12:50 AM) *
If I dont bet the flop here all the time it will also help my fold equity the times where I bet with K high or suited connectors and get better hands to fold.

Checking behind on the flop and calling reasonable turn bets would get me to the river just as cheap without the risk of getting c/r or c/c donked into on the turn.

I'm not saying that checking the flop is better I'm just making some arguments.


When there is a situation where you can play passively, or aggressively, I tend to err on the side of aggressive. Good things happen when you are aggressive.

QUOTE (AimHigher @ Sunday, December 23rd, 2007, 6:56 AM) *
I agree with this 100% (but not the next paragraph because he is OOP after the flop).


Hero isn't OOP in this hand. He's playing the BB, he can't be.
AimHigher
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Sunday, December 23rd, 2007, 4:27 PM) *
Hero isn't OOP in this hand. He's playing the BB, he can't be.


My bad, misread the hand history.

[rereads everything you said]
TheWanderer
You should be on that flop. Even if you are called, you have good equity against his range.
mtdesmoines
QUOTE (Moneyball16 @ Saturday, December 22nd, 2007, 9:08 PM) *
What should I be doing in this spot?


I C-Bet every low paired board when I've raise PF, no matter what I hold. Very difficult for villain to call UI.
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