hero 350
BB 500
villain 200

no real reads. just a pretty standard / soft live table


hero is Button with 6c,7c


villain raise UTG+1 to 10. folds to hero, hero call. sb fold. BB call.


flop: Ks, 5s, 8h


bb bet 15, villain raise to 30. hero? just wondering if this is standard anything?

On a draw and not to the nuts vs parties who will make it expensive to get there. An OESD is good if cheap, there's not a flush draw out too, if you think you'll get paid, and if you have the ability to get villains to fold if you semi-bluff. You don't really have any of those features. You might get paid if you hit it on the turn, but is it worth overcalling? Even if you call 30 you could easily be raised by the BB.

Easy fold IMO.

this is advice?


also, FYI i have 6 outs to the nuts

I clicked submit prematurely, please read my full post above. You can draw to the nuts but you don't have the nut draw.

ya but that only a problem if we think 1 of the 2 villains has a FD.

other wise we're getting 2.5-1 at the moment, with the possibility that BB will call the 15 more. down side is we dont close the action and could be investing 30, to get raised out of the pot by BB.

anyone think the implied odds of our stack vs the other two stacks is worth a call in this spot?

Eh, unless you know its easy to get UTG+1 off hands postflop I fold this preflop.

Live 1/2 NL is soooooooooooooo easy if you play a standard TAG game. Also, if you dont wanna go HU with hands like 76s, and its very possible it will be HU.

I fold here, you're not closing the action, it's possible someone has a flush draw taking 2 of your outs, and it's very possible that if you miss you're not gonna see a free river.

Fold

Not true. anyways, I do agree it leans to a fold more than a call. folding preflop is an option, but I probably make the call in LP more often than fold.

I'd fold unless you are willing to call a huge bet on the turn on the draw... you know if you miss on the turn there is going to be a larger bet then $30.

So if your willing to see one more card call, otherwise fold. There is also the chance if you call that the bb re-raises which would put you in even a harder position.

I don't love the preflop call at all. The UTG player doesn't have a ton of chips (yeah, it's 100BBs, but it plays like less when people open for 5BBs) and there are no calls inbetween adding value to your hand. I'd probably fold this preflop unless the UTG player had more like $300+.

On the flop, just fold. There's a flush draw out there. You are going to have to call a large bet in relation to the stacks and your call doesn't close the action. I really don't think you're getting a good price at all here considering you probably get blown off your hand if you miss on the turn and you only have 6 clean outs to hit.

preflop i call this all day long especially in position.

flop standard fold.

This is a leak. I used to do it a lot too, but it's still a leak given stack sizes.

Is it? What kind of a flop are we trying to hit with this hand? It seems like we got a favorable flop for our hand. Yes we may not be best right now but wouldn't implied odds be worth anything. It seems if we call and the BB calls then when/if we hit our hand he is going to be committed to the pot.

Is this thinking flawed?

could very well be. i get bored live though.

What if someone open shoves on the flop? Yeah we hit a good flop, but it doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to fold.

Implied odds kind of suck because we should realistically assume we must improve on the next card.
IF we know the BB is calling, then a call is reasonable. We don't know that. He led into an EP preflop raiser, so who knows what he's gonna do.
Folding is much better than calling and risking having to call off our stack here with 7 high.

fold preflop. Unless you have several callers ahead of you and your getting good odds, but most likely it would be a heads up pot.

I misread the hand (and again).

I call preflop. The flop is borderline because of the possibility of the PFR reraising, but I'll take 4.5:1 for the 6-outer.

This is one of those examples of someone elses play affecting your play.

There is nothing you can do about it. Tip your hat to the guy for minraising to 30 cuz he should successfully get you off this draw. It is unfortunate it went down like this, but its gotta be a fold.

If players got like 1k or more behind them, or if you are on a nice rush of a few hands in a row i would then consider calling 30

Are you serious?

I actually lol'ed

Have u ever read Supersytem? It is a great book. One of the best pieces of advice i took away from my reading was when doyle said he almost always plays the next hand after winning the previous one.

Not only do i believe playing your rush is a great tip for winning at poker, i also believe this concept can be great in most other aspects of life as well.

Lol, if you've ever watched Doyle play you'll see that he doesn't follow that rule at all, and he also plays AQ, which he said he never does.

I think there is a psychological edge to be gained when you appear to be playing a "rush" live.

*********

About the hand, if the villain is a calling station, I don't mind this action, although I think I don't min-raise the flop bet. I raise to $45 or just call.

Also don't think we can assume the villain is on a flush draw. I'm not opposed to playing this out if the villain is going to call off a big bet when we hit. It's read-dependent.

I think Super System is a good book, but this is easily the worst piece of advice in it, imho.

I think there's a bit of truth to this, but it's probably negligible in most cases, and it's still like beyond retarded for people to try to advocate on a poker strategy forum that they are playing hands because they're been hitting flops, etc.

It's simply retarded, and ignores all the math we spend so much time trying to learn and understand.

Take this shit to the General Poker Forum.

I think the emotional aspect of poker rises in importance as the stakes increase.