I want to try to make a decent amount of money ( for me maybe 700 to 1k a month would be huge) I am a student I cant afford starting off w/ $ 1,000 and then going on from there. I can barely afford starting w/ $200 ( I know it will take time for me to reach my goal w/ this amount). Now look, I've made many mistakes, like puting 3/4ths of my bankroll in a 200 nl table, but I wont do it again. Also in the past I have tried to start building my bankroll w/ a $50 deposit online and playing $25 NL that didnt work either ( too much swings ). I guess I should start playing limit holdem but I need advice on what limit to start on, when to move up a level, when do I have sufficient funds to start taking money out? is there a point where playing more tournaments might be better than cash games? those sort of things that might help me start to make money, maybe even a living. If there are pro's out there (nudge to Mr. Negreanu)
or just people who are consistent at making money that could help me out I would appreciate it.

P.S. I forgot to mention this so keep in mind im under 21 so I can't be at a casino every day ( maybe 2 or 3 times a week), and I can only afford to play about 4 hrs. due to school.

You have to start out like everyone else, at the really bottom and work your way up. It depends on what your bankroll is starting off, how good of a player you are, what games your good at, what limits you can play succesfully at and etc. If your starting bankroll is $200, start playing .5/1 stakes. When you get to about $500, you can jump up to 1/2. When you get to $1000, you jump up to 2/4. When you get to $1500, you can play 3/6. $2000 and you can play 5/10. I wouldn't say these numbers are exact, but it's just a guide and about approximately how I'd do it off the top of my head. This is all assuming you can beat these games at these limits, if you aren't winning consistently at a higher limit, go back down to the limit where you have the most success at.

If you want to make 700-1k a month, I think your expectations are a little too high. It will take quite some time before you get there, I'm not discouraging you but I don't think you'll be making that unless you get past the 5/10 level, which could take a while if your building your bankroll from $200 on up.

To be honest though, I'm not the best at bankroll management, so maybe other poster could give better advice. I was stupid before in how I managed my money. I played way above my bankroll and for whatever reason I'm kind of comfortable even if I put a large portion of my bankroll at stake. For instance, I'd play 10/20 with a bankroll of 500, which was absolutely stupid, but I didn't do to bad, so it ended up ok. I don't do that anymore though.

Bonus whore.

Sign up for PP but don't deposit money.

Waut for them to send you a 50% deposit bonus email.

Deposit $200

Play .50/$1 to unlock the $100 bonus dollars.

Continue playing with an appropriate 300BB bankroll untill you get to $600 and move up to $1/$2

rinse and repeat.

Basically, like mentioned above, you will have to start at the bottom and work your way up. Start at the micro-limit and start moving upwards from there. This is the only way to build a bankroll on limited funds. If you play above the scope of your bankroll, like we all have before, you will find yourself out of funds quickly and feel hopeless about your playing prospects. The simple solution to this is to NOT do it.

Start small.... make sure you have 300-500xBB and for no-limit games aim for about 1000xBB. These bankrolls will help you sustain the swings and you will find yourself starting to build your roll as time moves on if you are playing solid poker.

Best of luck.

if you start limit, people generally advise having a bankroll of around 300X size upper limit. 200X upper limit should be enough as well. that means you need at least a 400$ roll to safely play in 1/2 holdem.

my advice to you is: play the game you are best at. im assuming you are a holdem player which leaves you with games of NL, PL and straight limit. (ive never seen spread limit online). in your post, you said you played in the NL games and given current trends, i'll wager you prefer NL.

if you choose to play in NL you need at fewest 10X the max buyin for your bankroll to be safe and stable. some players actually advise having at least 20X buyin. i beleive 15X the max buyin should be sufficient. allocate what you can for poker and then choose the game with a max buyin that is roughly 1/15 your whole bankroll. remeber, when playing you must always buyin for the max amount the game allows to increase earnings.

keep at the money level of game until you have 15X the max buyin at the next level and then move up. slow and steady wins the race.

25/50 PL on Party could be the softest game on the internet.

Start small and use the deposit bonuses every month, if your serious about it your gonna have to invest outside money to help you move along. 20% return for just breaking even is a great way to move up a little faster.

Start small, .5/1, and beat the game, these games will help you play tighter.

it sucks, but it has to be done....grind it out and you'll respect your BR a lot more. Also keep records of everything, this way when you have $900 and want to play a $200 sit and go you can look and see how long it will take to make back the $215 after your KK gets cracked by A2. The goal is to make money.....if you keep that as your #1 goal you will be fine.

I recently turned 18 in October and would consider myself a pretty experienced player already. Before turning 18 I had played in several private tourneys run outside of houses, etc. and played everyday with my friends in NL hold'em games. When I turned 18 I started with $200 (I'm a student also) and started playing 3-6 hold'em at Soaring Eagle cardroom and would buy in with $50 and I am currently up to $600. Just find a low-limit game where you are confident you can win.

You had a bankroll of 200 and would play with 50 bucks at a 3/6 table? wow

yep...i had $200 and bought in $50 and doubled it. is there something wrong with that. i am just a student and don't have as much money as most of you guys. :roll:

That's great that you doubled it, and it wasn't a knock on your skill, its just that at 3/6 that small of a bankroll can't handle the swings, so even if you are a great player the natural times where you lose money will kill destroy the whole bankroll.

yep...i had $200 and bought in $50 and doubled it. is there something wrong with that. i am just a student and don't have as much money as most of you guys.


You didn't beat the game, you got lucky.

Not realizing that would be a bad thing.

I had the same problems when I was a student on a limited bankroll. These guys are right on the money. It doesnt matter how good you are the swings can decimate a small bankroll.

I was playing good poker and really making some money until I had two sessions where the cards just absolutely spit in my face!!! You cant risk 50% or more of your buy in, thats suicide.

Just becasue you turned 50 into 200 one night at a limit table means nuts.

I used to be the guy that bought in for the minimum at limit. Now if I am at a casino and want to play wiht my friends at 3/6 i will buy in from 120-200.


**Listen to these guys, they know this subject.***

Be careful playing with small bankrolls and buy-ins. Variance is a real b****. I try not to enter a limit game with less than 50BB. A NL game, 100BB. Just to sit at the table. With a limit game, you may get away with less, but if you play a 3/6 NL game with $50, prepare to get bullied. Congrats on your win, but just a suggestion: Don't go to a 6-on-1 gunfight with 3 bullets in the gun...

Good luck!

Ring games might be best for determining your hourly return, but I found that, given my modest buy-in and the low blind levels that I was forced to play because of it, I didn't make enough of a profit to make sitting on my butt for hours worth my while.

If you're a decent tourney player and can exercise a tiny bit of patience, I'd recommend the sit-n-go's at UltimateBet or PokerStars (I didn't like PartyPoker's lower starting chip count, personally). I'm what I like to call a "risk-minimizer" at the table; I'll make plays when I believe my opponent doesn't have a strong hand, but I generally play it safe, and manage to pick off enough small pots that I don't need to gamble as much with marginal hands, even with rapidly escalating blind levels. My experience is that it only takes one or two big hands to finish in the money in most of these sit-n-go's, and most players will compete with each other for quickest exit. The uber-tight/cautious strategy might not work as well in multi-table tourneys or tourneys with re-buys, but it's suited me just fine in the single-table tourneys.

Like you, my original buy-in was on UltimateBet for $50. I got it up to $1200 in two months (I use it for airfare, not poker), strictly on $10+1 sit-n-go's (and an occasional $5+.50, where I'd play looser once the first few players got knocked out). I tried to move to $2/4 ring games at one point, but my game isn't suited to beat even those games yet, because the limits are still low enough that players will stay in with draws, and I still looked at my money in terms of law school application fees and groceries, and a $70 hit on one hand sent me crying in a corner.

But for you, it sounds like once you got your bankroll up, you'd know what to do. So try the sit-n-go's, but recognize that you might have to buy in again. $50 will only get you into 4 $10+1 tourneys, and you'd have to log a first-place finish in one to turn a modest profit if you didn't place in the other three. (On a positive note, I've never finished out of the money in more than four in a row, which is less a testament to skill than to the fact that most people who play these things are either compulsive wahoos or just looking to unwind). Anway, they're eminently beatable, and generally take less than an hour. Even if you run into a superior player, which I do quite often, there are still two other places that pay out in the event that you get played like a fiddle. It's very rare that you'll find a table where EVERYONE is a stellar player at the humble limits.

It's just my experience that $50 or $100 won't allow you to play high enough limits to build your bankroll as much as you'd like. But remember that I'm not one of those players who can calculate equity and expected value on the spot. At $0.50/$1, the average pot size is generally $2-$3, so you be the judge how many of these you could pick off without getting nailed by variance.

Whatever you do, don't dump your money into a large tourney with an enticing payout. It's just not worth the risk at this point.

i'm in da same boat as you...still tryin 2 build my bankroll...so good luck 2 ya...peace!

I believe from other post by you that you are under 21. How can you build any bankroll? Your poker site will terminate your account as soon as you are reported.

I just started playing for real money Saturday night. I don't know why it took so long but I wanted to be sure I had a fool-proof formula to build a bankroll.

Anyway, I deposited $100 on Saturday night and started off at limit hold em .5/1 (The blinds are actually .25/.5). I brought $50 to the table (100XBB) I was amazed to see that of the 4.5 hours I played this weekend, I never sat at a table with someone who brought more than me. People were playing with $13, $8, $15, I think they just came in with $25 because that is the "default" amount. Ridiculous.

Anyway, at this level, the play is horrible. I've won $117 in 4.5 hours of play ($26/hour clip. This includes a dry spell of being down $15 during a 45-minute stretch.)

Anyway, for me to move up a level, 2 things have to happen:

1)I need to double my bankroll at the current level
2)I need to be consistently winning 5BB/hour

Nobody mentioned number 2 yet. It's not just about doubling your bankroll. You can double your bankroll by winning only 1BB/hour, if you play long enough. You need to be consistently beating the game in order to move up.

So, right now, I'm winning 52XBB lol. However, I'll probably hit $300 before moving up to 1/2. Then after doubling my roll, and winning 5BB/hour, I'll go to 2/4. Etc...

You've got to grind it out man. I think this is a pretty fool-proof way to supplement your income. Even if you are in college and can only buy in for $100, or $50, you can still grind out at the lower levels. And I won't play tournaments until I have more padding in my roll. Once I get a lot in there, I will be able to take more "risks" and play tourneys (which can pay off a lot more potentially). But for now, it's time to GRIIIIIND!!!

Nobody mentioned number 2 yet. It's not just about doubling your bankroll. You can double your bankroll by winning only 1BB/hour, if you play long enough. You need to be consistently beating the game in order to move up.


5BB an hour is unsustainable. We're talking about one table, here, right?

Impossible. Not even close to a realisticly sustainable number.

Also your starting bankroll of $100 is WAY too short. Move up (to 1/2) when you get to $600. Track your win rate by BB/100 hands, not per hour. It's much more presice.

If you're not beating .50/1 for at least 2.5BB/100 single tabling, you're probably not getting maximum value from situations, but don't let that stop you from moving up when you hit $600.

If you're not beating .50/1 for at least 1.5BB there's very likely a serious leak in your game and you should stick around at any bankroll amount untill you can beat it consistently at a higher rate.

5BB/hour is around 7BB/100, which again, is impossible to sustain over anything but a small sample of hands.

5BB/hour is not my creation. I think I saw it on Howard Lederer's page. I may be wrong but I think he said you shouldn't move up until you're consistently winning 4-5X the Big Blind at a table. Anyway, I think 52XBB/hour at .5/1 is safe to move up to 1/2 here, I just need to keep abusing these calling stations at .5/1 for a few more nights then I'll jump up.

Smash, the internet is so automatic and fast (at least at .5/1) that I think it's pretty consistent to use 1 hour as a guage. Maybe at the higher levels people take longer to make decisions, I don't know.

The point is:

Not only do you need to build the bankroll to sustain swings at a higher level, you need to make sure you are consistently beating the level you are at.

Ballplayers don't start out in AAA when they can't hit the fastball of an A-ball pitcher.

Just to keep our feud going, it's "precise", not "presice".

5BB/hour is not my creation. I think I saw it on Howard Lederer's page. I may be wrong but I think he said you shouldn't move up until you're consistently winning 4-5X the Big Blind at a table. Anyway, I think 52XBB/hour at .5/1 is safe to move up to 1/2 here, I just need to keep abusing these calling stations at .5/1 for a few more nights then I'll jump up.


Listen to me.

Play 5000 hands at .50/$1 before you move up.

Whatever you do after that, I donn't care. Just play 5000 hands and see where you are.

You're on the way to losing your whole bankroll and then coming back here and wondering why. I'm trying to help you here.


Play 5000 hands at .50/$1 before you move up.


For your own good.

IF you play 500 hands a day that's 10 days.

5 times the big bet is unsustainable at probably any level unless your multi-tabling. If it was sustainable, you'd be making a killing and bankroll would be the last of your concerns

shouldn't move up until you're consistently winning 4-5X the Big Blind at a table


Aha!

I think we have communication thing here, I just caught that. 4XBB means 4 x the BIG BET when talking about Limit, not 4 X the BIG BLIND.

5 times the BIG BLIND is certainly sustainable.

Still. Play 5k hands before moving. It's worth it in the long run and won't take you that long.

Smash - BB multiple is usually big bets for limit (at least in my poker experience), but BB is big blind in big bet.

And I agree with 5000 hands - but I'd consider that a bare minimum. I'd say 15-20k hands are about where you need to be for the statistics to be meaningful.

And I agree with 5000 hands - but I'd consider that a bare minimum. I'd say 15-20k hands are about where you need to be for the statistics to be meaningful.


Sure, but playing 20k hands at .50/$1 when you have $5000 sitting in your accoutn is pretty tedious.

It's unlikely that most losing players are going to be up signfigantly after 5000 hands, allthough still possible.

winning/losing should be clear after 5000 hands - and if its close, then you're probably close. I was referring to how much of a winning player, that would obviously be clearer after 3x the hands.

winning/losing should be clear after 5000 hands - and if its close, then you're probably close. I was referring to how much of a winning player, that would obviously be clearer after 3x the hands.


Sure, and clearer still after 1,000,000 but I don't think anyone's going to advocate playing 1,000,000 hands at .50/1 to see what your real long term win rate is.

Allthough...If I could figure out a way to 64 table .50/1....we'd really have something there!

LOL!

I understand that you shouldnt jump levels too soon, but 5k hands at .5/1 may be a bit much. Here is why: I don't want to spend any more time than I have to playing against crappy players. I think once you get to the more competetive levels, you can take longer to move up but at .5/1 I think 1000 seems pretty good. I've already played 7 hours which I'm guessing is around 500 hands? By the end of the week I'll probably make my jump to 1/2.

Point for you guys: After bagging $117 in my first 4.5 hours of play at .5/1, I played last night for just under 2.5 hours and ended up -$3.50 for the day! Boy did I have a bad stretch of luck! I was actually down $38 after 2 hours then I actually had some hands hold up and won $36.50 in 20 minutes... so yes, I clearly see that there can be a lot of variance in the game. I probably have seen 98% of the variance spectrum in 7 hours of play! So now I'm at +$113.50 after 7 hrs. Still pretty good at .5/1 considering I've hit a good streak AND a bad streak. (Albeit the good run was a little longer than the bad).

A couple of my bad beats:

I'm holding 2 5 and flop two pairs. I'm betting it through hoping to push out the drawing hands. NOPE. lucky card on river makes some dude a straight.

I hold J-5 and limp in in late pos.
Flop brings me a set of 5's. I bet it through showing no sign of weakness... I lose to a guy who makes a flush! Get this... the dude had pocket clubs. There was ONE club on the flop! He hit club-club to make the flush! And he didn't even have a pair, either?! This dude chased a runner-runner flush with nothing. Why do the players that make crappy plays seem to get so lucky???

Obviously there were several more but these are the two that sting.

Oh yeah I get dealt KK and jam the pot early ....getting as much in there as I can. Hand plays through, I show some strength but then slow down as this guy seems stong as well. (I'm not raising anymore at this point). We get to the end. He made 2's and 5's! Yeah, the same 2's and 5's that I lost with earlier to a straight! LOL. I lose w/ 2 5 to a straight, and yet someone else with 2 5 cracks my KK.

Overall, bad day, but the good news is I don't think it can get much worse!

Overall I wound up ahead as I won $19 in a NL $10+$1 sng. Ahead $15.50 after 3 hours.... I'll take it. I broke my rule of playing tourneys but I was on such a bad streak I needed some help.

Overall, bad day, but the good news is I don't think it can get much worse!

Overall I wound up ahead as I won $19 in a NL $10+$1 sng. Ahead $15.50 after 3 hours.... Sad I'll take it. I broke my rule of playing tourneys but I was on such a bad streak I needed some help.


You are going to lose all your money.

I imagine you'll just deposit more and not mention it here, but your refusing to take the advice of people who play better than you do and who have 0layed onloine for years.

It's a shame we won't all be able to share a laugh when you go broke because I'm certain you won't mention it.

Whatever, good luck.

I tried.

Well I admire you for never having a bad luck streak.

The most I was down was $40, which is less than 20% of my bankroll. I thought that's why we had the bankroll discussion on here? To absorb the bad streaks... now you are not even heeding your own advice. Sigh.

Thank you Smash, for all your advice. First you said wait till I get to $600 to move to 1/2. Now you are saying play 5K hands. Which is it? Both? You need to have your strategy firmly intact before you spew it to others. Don't worry about me losing my money, it won't be the first time I've been knocked down, and it probably won't be the last.

One day you will come back and laugh at this...If that day never comes, You're still a losing player.

Hopefully. That would mean I've improved as a player. There's always room for improvement.

Well I admire you for never having a bad luck streak.


You really need to read more carefully. The advice I'm giving you is going to protect you from the impossible to avoid REAL -200BB bad luck streaks that happen to EVERYONE.


The most I was down was $40, which is less than 20% of my bankroll. I thought that's why we had the bankroll discussion on here? To absorb the bad streaks... now you are not even heeding your own advice. Sigh.


You haven't seen a bad streak yet. You will, everyone does, but thikning this was one is why I'm telling you to wait to move up.


Thank you Smash, for all your advice. First you said wait till I get to $600 to move to 1/2. Now you are saying play 5K hands. Which is it? Both? You need to have your strategy firmly intact before you spew it to others. Don't worry about me losing my money, it won't be the first time I've been knocked down, and it probably won't be the last.


It's both of course. If you get to $600 before 5000 hands you'll have no idea how variacne works at all. It should take you a lot more hands, but s happens.

When you don't understand varianve and you get whacked for a big downswing after moving up in limits you'll be inclined to think your game is flawed and make changes, etc. After that you might as well just light the money on fire.

Do what you want. It's your money to lose. I

Alright, thank you.

You say everyone will run into a 200XBB bad streak?

How do you know it won't stop here? Why couldn't it be a 400XBB streak?
Or lifetime? That doesn't mean you should be so timid about moving up.
Just b/c your worst bad streak may have been 200XBB, doesn't mean some other good players' streak could be as bad as 400XBB, and at the same rate, a player may be lucky enough to never have a 100XBB bad streak...that's why it's called "luck".

Besides, if someone hits a 200XBB bad streak, they need to take a 1 week vacation from poker, and just forget about it all. Shit, play play money poker... whatever, but get back into the rhythm before playing out a bad streak THAT bad.

The point is you do not know. But, if you move up too quickly, it will stop there, b/c you will be broke. Slow down and consider the advice being offered. It is priceless.

We all have had to grind it out. And many of us have learned these lessons, the hard way. You would do well to heed some of this advice. If you must experience it before you believe it, go for it. Be prepared to redeposit at some point. If you do not have to, you can consider yourself extremely lucky.

Having followed many of his posts, Smash's advice/suggestions regarding poker are usually right on, however harsh they may be.

The point is Smash is giving me a number of how bad my streak will get. He cannot put a number on it. Theoretically, you could have a dry spell for the rest of your life. That doesn't mean you are bad at poker, and that doesn't mean you should be scared to move up.

I will heed his qualitative advice of: Don't move up too soon.
But not his quantitative advice: Your dry spell will hit 200XBB.

When I deem myself ready to move up, I will. As will you guys. I can't sit here and worry about moving to 1/2 with a $500 bankroll thinking "Hey, I could lose $600 here and have to redeposit." You can't go through life like that. My goal was to put 100 in there and never have to redeposit, I'm not saying I will make that goal, but I want to slowly but surely grind out a few extra grand a year through one of my hobbies.

So, again, I am listening to you both. I won't move up until I play many more hands at .5/1. However, for Smash to put a number on a dry streak is non-sensical. Everyone's short-term luck varies.

If you play 100,000 hands it's 85% likely you will experience at least a 100BB downswing, probably many.

If you play 6-max over that many hands it's over 85% likely you'll experience a 200BB downswing.

IF you PLAY PERFECTLY. If you don't lose more when you tilt, if you don't make mistakes in adjusting your play because you're afraid to lose more.

You don't play perfectly. Move up without a proper bankroll and you're going to lose all of your money. It's not a question of if it's a question of when.

I understand all this, but who's to say when it's a good time to move up? Get it? Theoretically you could move to 1/2 with a $1,000,000 bankroll, lose it all in ... I don't know a year.. whatever, real quick. Now you've got to redeposit even though you were murdering the .5/1 table for a month straight before you moved up.

Was it a mistake that you moved up? Are you going to laugh at that person for moving up? I hope not.

My point is, nobody can put a number on luck. Luck is a wave, nay, a tsunami, of which the peaks and valleys can vary immensely.

With that said, I'm takin' $84 on up to the 1/2 tables tonight!!! HEEEEEELLL YEAAAAH!!!!! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

J.K.

Off the subject, how many hands are dealt on the internet per hour? Table size I play at varies between about 6-10 people. So say average of 8 ppl each hand. What is it, like 30-35 hph?

If that's the case I'm only at about 270-315 hands @ .5/1 (really SB is .25, BB is .5 I don't know why they call it .5/1?) The big bet on 4th and 5th is 1, but I think to say .5/1 is misleading.

Off the subject, how many hands are dealt on the internet per hour? Table size I play at varies between about 6-10 people. So say average of 8 ppl each hand. What is it, like 30-35 hph?


Depends on a lot of things, speed of the software, the other players, etc.

Generally, though, you're seeing over 60 an hour at a 8 handed table.

I see an average of 85 an hour playing 6-max.

30 per hour is closer to what you'd see live at LL casino game.

Hi,

I used to be mainly a tourney and S&G player and have been playing a little less than a year. I lost 500 bucks the first two months I was playing and then redoposited another $500 and worked that up to $2900 over 6 months. I then got the bright idea to play 20/40 limit. :shock: I won $4000 in two days of almost nonstop play and thought I was the greatest player in the world.

The next day I lost all $4000 profit, went to the bathroom, puked, and then cashed out my bankroll which was back to $2900.

I stopped playing for 1.5 months until Jan 1st. I redeposited $500 and entered the $10 rebuy at Paradise. Spent $30 and came in 4th for $500.

First game back.

Of course I then went to the 10/20 table and ran up the $1000 to $1900 in two days of play. I then proceeded to lose for two days and got down to my original buy-in of $500.

Well what to do. I buy in for my whole bank of $500 at 8/16 and run it up to $2900 over 5 days playing 4 hours a day. Woo hoo. I then lose $1300 over two days of chasing and am now at $1600. I would be a little better but have been playing the 35k tourney, came in 30th but other wise have lost about $180 in buyins.

I have since decided to only play 5/10 and $50 S&G's until I work up to at least $5000. Then I will play 8/16 and maybe 10/20 again. I love tourneys but have found that when I am playing well I can make more at limit.

It was an insane ride and kind of fun but I wouldn't suggest it to anyone. My actual bank is now $3000 since March of 2004. That is after subtracting the original $500 I lost and the 2 $500 dollar buyins.

This game is about patience and good decisions. If you are unable to exhibit the propensity for both you will be a losing player in the long run.

I got very very lucky when I made the extrememely bad decision to move up to a limit my bank couldn't handle. 20/40 for gods sake!!!! Emotionally I couldn't handle it either and was limping when I should have been raising and losing to hands that should have been knocked out if I wasn't worried about the money. You can't play well if you are worried about the money. You won't raise for value and you will lose to hands that get there on the river because you were playing scared.

Actually I say you when I mean me, but I think this is almost universal.

If you are a good player you should have 250 BB minimum to deal with the swings. Some say 500 BB.

So for me the minimum for 8/16 would be 4 grand. I will wait till I have 5 grand though cause I think I learned my lesson.

Good luck and listen to these guys.

lol

So JC, are you making 700-1k a month now?

This post should be stickied for a few reasons.

1) It shows that even the best of players start somewhere.

2) It shows that hard work and dedication pays off.

3) It shows that you really can't expect to make something out of nothing and that you really have to put in the time to experience the results. You can't expect big money sums to come in right away. It takes years of grinding it out.

It also has great advice from Smash in it.

4) Shows how retarded some people *cough*Jfarrel*cough* are

Awesome post dragup, good to see that some of the big names started as most of us do!

Yes, this is an epic bump.

I feel that for me at least building a bankroll is easiest
playing hu plo sngs and plo cash games.
Especially if you are playing plo hu sngs, peopole have no idea what they are doing and if
you are good enough it is an easy way to make money.

Interesting to read the differences in BR management back then - the advice now is a lot more cautious