Reads and my image: Villian is a young man who has been sitting at the table for about an hour. He appears decent, I haven't noticed too many big hands that he's been involved in. I've been raising my good hands preflop but i haven't been too aggressive postflop. Villian in BB is super LAG so i was hoping to flop a hand to call him down with.

My hand is K9dd

Effective stacks: Villian- $400 hero- covers

Preflop: two limps, hero limps, Villian raises to $15, BB calls $15, UTG calls $15, hero calls $15.

Flop: Ks, Qh, 5h

BB and UTG check. Hero bets $50, Villian calls $50, BB and UTG fold.

Turn: 7s

How are we playing this hand the rest of the way?

my two cents...is probably dead wrong.

I personally don't like the 9 kicker so I continuation bet the turn to see where I stand (maybe $80?) and check the river unless something magical happens.

1. Don't limp preflop with this hand.
2. Don't call a raise preflop in a large multiway pot when you're OOP to the preflop raiser, especially not when you think the raiser might actually know how to play poker.
3. Betting into the raiser (and 2 other opponents) when he has position on you is just bad on a draw heavy board with a hand that can't stand a raise anyway.
4. Check/fold the turn.

ding.

So i made a loose call PF getting 4:1, BFD, haven't you ever made one?

Oh, and i agree about #3, but what if he checks behind on the turn?

yes i have. they were probably mistakes. i admit it. being able to admit it makes it less of one.



tough. i my gut tells me small bet/fold.

Fo' Realz.



Yeah, like Navy said, it's a leak, so stop it. And stop defending it too, because it's wrong and you know it. You don't really have business calling preflop with that nonsense unless you're telling yourself you're not playing unless you flop a big draw or two pair+.

Betting the flop is retarded. I have no idea why you bet into like 4395843958 opponents OOP with TPNK. If he does check behind on the turn, then you are checking pretty much every river card but a non-flush completing 9 and calling a medium sized bet on any card that doesn't make a flush, but be prepared to lose anyway.

Fold pre and check/fold the turn.

NoBBir said it already, but just becuase I've made stupid moves, doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to point out how stupid this is. You made a mistake and it's a fairly large mistake since K9dd is a rather hopeless hand. I'd prefer it if you were in there with a suited 3 gapper like 48dd instead of this one.

As for my #3, if he checks behind on the turn, I'm checking pretty much every river, calling a small bet and making what is almost certainly a -EV play in paying off his AK or whatever it is that he's got that obviously had me crushed from start to finish.

Yea, but do we constantly bring up your -EV limp/calls? No. I've already heard about 1000 times how horrible my limp call in this hand was, thats fine, i get it. I never defended it by the way. It was a loose call. A leak if i'm deep-stacked? Who knows, i was deep and i felt like gambling. I just find it so funny how some people beat to death one aspect of a hand when 99% of them know they've limp/called a hand in a similiar fashion. Edit: What i'm trying to say is that i got myself in this predicament, what is my escape plan? I'm fine check folding two streets if i have too.



I checked the turn and Villian checked behind. River i checked again and Villian bet $75. I called and Villian had QJ. Obv crushed though.

I don't know where you're getting this attitude, but you really need to leave it at the door before you come into the forums.

You post a hand where you made a glaring error. You try and downplay it by saying "BFD, like you've never done it before?" which has nothing to do with anything. Any hand that I post or that anyone else posts is free to be ripped apart in any manner that the forum sees fit. You made a bad play. We all make bad plays. There was really no extra emphasis placed on this play except that you seemed to get pissed off at me for bringing it up and thus, sidetracking your thread.

For the record, it seems that you did defend this play, or at least get angry that it was pointed out that you made a bad play. Playing hands in this manner is a leak, especially when you say that the villain is probably a decent player. Saying that "I felt like gambling" has no bearing in poker. In the long run, can you make this play and have a +EV outcome? I would wager that the answer is no.

The one aspect of the hand is beaten to death becuase it's the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of the hand. If you fold this preflop instead of limping, or if you fold to his large raise after limping, you never have to make these decisions. So much of poker is putting youself in a position where you can easily make +EV decisions and when the hand starts, each street builds on itself. It is very difficult to play hands with weak holdings in a raised pot when OOP, so you should be doing everything that you can to avoid those situations to begin with, since they are inherently -EV.

I don't really know why you decided to personally attack me in this thread considering I wasn't attacking you. You made a bad play and someone called you on it cause you posted it in a poker forum. Get over it. Don't do it again. I already commented on what the best course of action was for the other streets based on how the hand had played out thus far, so it's not like I just bashed your preflop play and left you in the dark on the rest of the hand.


Obviously crushed implies a range of hands. Did you really include QJo in his range of hands? What did you think he had when he called the flop bet? You're playing this hand pretty blindly and you're losing most of the time.

(1) You brought it up by posting the hand. Smart poker players said it was a poor play, you replied with hostility, and said smart players proceeded to explain why it was a poor play. You came back with a sandy vag and went nutso.

(2) This is a poker strategy forum. In this forum we discuss situations that are +EV, and dismiss -EV situations. There is no room for "feeling like gambling" unless something happens to be precisely 0 EV, but that doesn't happen often, and even there, other considerations (metagame) will push the decision one way or the other.

(3) This is completely irrelevant, obviously. It's like saying don't tell me not to drive drunk, even if you've made the mistake in the past. Give me a break.

(bonus) Attitude is uncool.

I think my bad day at work yesterday was affecting some of the comments i made in this thread.

I'm sorry for making it sound like i was attacking certain individuals or their opinions. I really appreciate the input from pple here in this forum and i don't want my doucheness in this thread to disinterest those individuals or others from giving me their honest feedback in future threads i might start.

Yea Acid, i completely agree with what you said about calling the raise PF as the most important aspect of how the hand develops. I usually play much tighter PF than this but i when i tend to run well i end up making mistakes like this and this happened to be a situation i got stuck in. When he called my bet on the flop i was thinking he had a set, but when he checked the turn, i got suspicious and his bet on the river was too small i think.

Again, I apologize to everyone for coming off harsh.

We're cool.

No problem. I don't hold grudges.


Umm, even if I did hold grudges, I'd forgive and forget for the use of this word, which I'm pretty sure Webster's needs to be alerted to.

Just to throw in some controversy, I think table positions are important here, and they're not mentioned in the OP. Like, if this is a full table and we're limping here MP1...I think that's pretty bad. However, if we're CO by chance, this limp's still a little loose but probably fine if we're competent. Also, once the other guys call, we're getting pretty decent odds...we just need to know that we need to hit pretty hard or get out of there post-flop.

I kind of detest donkbets/probes with mediocre hands, so I don't like that part post-flop.

Oh, and way to rip off my thread title. (sw)

Hero folds preflop. Hero doesn't even wonder if he folded the best hand as he orders a drink, cuz he didn't.

edit: Villain shows up with QJ? Wow