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Sheiky
Ever since i started playing MTTs, i've struggled trying to get the right balance between playing my cards and playing the situation.

I consider myself to be a decent player in cash games and i know a lot about poker theory and concepts etc.

In cash games, you don't have to worry about anything other than the hand itself. IE, you never have to push with ATC because you're shortstacked or tighten/loosen up because you're nearing the bubble. You can play every hand with a full stack of chips, and every decision you make is purely about -EV or +EV (Not entirely true, but it helps my point).

In tournaments though, there seems to be so much more you have to worry about and adjust to.

At first, i just played every tournament like a FR cash game and didn't try any fancy moves till i got shortstacked, at which point i changed obviously.

After a while, i felt this wasn't working and with all i've read about tourney strat and watching Annette's blind play video, i decided to try and open my game up more. Going by Greg Raymer's quote "Play the situation, not the cards" i would consider my situation(chip stack, table patterns, position etc.) before i considered the value of my cards during every decision.

This, did not work. The only tourney i got deep in with a big stack i bust out trying to play bigstack poker, from memory i attempted to re-steal four times PF with J4o (conincidentaly, i kept getting that hand) and was generaly very aggressive all round.

My question is, how different should your MTT strategy (this includes all the different phrases such as bigstack play etc.) be from your cash game one? How often should you be playing the situation and not the cards? Is it better to play the cards more if you're not a very good player? Is attempting to play 'bigstack' poker with a bigstack FPS or the right idea?

I know these may seem a bit general and vague, but i'm poor at phrasing questions like this.
copernicus
QUOTE (Sheiky @ Saturday, November 24th, 2007, 5:54 PM) *
Ever since i started playing MTTs, i've struggled trying to get the right balance between playing my cards and playing the situation.

I consider myself to be a decent player in cash games and i know a lot about poker theory and concepts etc.

In cash games, you don't have to worry about anything other than the hand itself. IE, you never have to push with ATC because you're shortstacked or tighten/loosen up because you're nearing the bubble. You can play every hand with a full stack of chips, and every decision you make is purely about -EV or +EV (Not entirely true, but it helps my point).

In tournaments though, there seems to be so much more you have to worry about and adjust to.

At first, i just played every tournament like a FR cash game and didn't try any fancy moves till i got shortstacked, at which point i changed obviously.

After a while, i felt this wasn't working and with all i've read about tourney strat and watching Annette's blind play video, i decided to try and open my game up more. Going by Greg Raymer's quote "Play the situation, not the cards" i would consider my situation(chip stack, table patterns, position etc.) before i considered the value of my cards during every decision.

This, did not work. The only tourney i got deep in with a big stack i bust out trying to play bigstack poker, from memory i attempted to re-steal four times PF with J4o (conincidentaly, i kept getting that hand) and was generaly very aggressive all round.

My question is, how different should your MTT strategy (this includes all the different phrases such as bigstack play etc.) be from your cash game one? How often should you be playing the situation and not the cards? Is it better to play the cards more if you're not a very good player? Is attempting to play 'bigstack' poker with a bigstack FPS or the right idea?

I know these may seem a bit general and vague, but i'm poor at phrasing questions like this.


Youre always playing the situation in tourneys, even if that means playing the same as a cash game because stacks are deep. You really need to consider everything to avoid major errors, especially when effective stacks are in the 10-30 bb range. Below that its pushbot poker and responding to pushbots, and above that its pretty much tEV=cEV.

Playing blind for a few tourneys is also suggested by Phil Gordon (where is Annettes video posted?). Theres a big difference between doing and watching, so give it a shot. It would make a great brag post if you FTd!

I think your bigstack approach above was backwards though. To me, good bigstack play is being aggressive as first-in, backing off when you dont have the goods, and hammering a player who thinks youre just bullying when you do have the goods. When you are "re-stealing" you have to remember that the "stealer" is taking into account that he has a big stack behind him, he knows he is very vulnerable to overcalls, and can wind up playing for his whole stack. Thus you cant count on him stealing with as wide a range as a more balanced stack situation. Also, restealing with total garbage is rarely +EV. You always want some value if the stealer has a real hand. Connected unsuited cards, suited 0 or 1 gappers at worst, low pairs, weaker aces.
jmbreslin
QUOTE (copernicus @ Saturday, November 24th, 2007, 6:48 PM) *
I think your bigstack approach above was backwards though. To me, good bigstack play is being aggressive as first-in, backing off when you dont have the goods, and hammering a player who thinks youre just bullying when you do have the goods.


Yup, and this was one of the very valuable lessons from Annette's video. Because she was playing blind, her aggresion was always first-in - either open-raising in position, or raising to isolate a limper in position. That was about the extent of her fancy play. What is so valuable about her video as a learning tool is that it beautifully demonstrated textbook selectively-aggressive poker.

The other really valuable lesson from her video for MTT strategy is how once she built up a stack of her own, she steered clear of other stacks that could cripple/eliminate her while she took chances against shorter stacks to knock them out and build her stack.
copernicus
QUOTE (jmbreslin @ Saturday, November 24th, 2007, 8:57 PM) *
Yup, and this was one of the very valuable lessons from Annette's video. Because she was playing blind, her aggresion was always first-in - either open-raising in position, or raising to isolate a limper in position. That was about the extent of her fancy play. What is so valuable about her video as a learning tool is that it beautifully demonstrated textbook selectively-aggressive poker.

The other really valuable lesson from her video for MTT strategy is how once she built up a stack of her own, she steered clear of other stacks that could cripple/eliminate her while she took chances against shorter stacks to knock them out and build her stack.


So where is this video!
throwemaway
http://www.pokerxfactor.com/servlet/pxf;js...plate=login.htm
The Phoenix
Sheiky, I had a similar problem adapting to tournaments. I was primarily a cash game player who just dabbled in tournaments for fun. I like tournaments more than cash games. I get bored in cash games now. The plus side for cash games is consistency. Your winrate is generally consistent. Obviously variance exists but the swings are nowhere as brutal as tourament variance.

I'm a big fan of Annette, I watch her play often and have viewed a number of her HH's on PXF including the blind 180. I feel like I've learned a ton from her. After watching the blind 180, I thought it would have a huge impact on my tournament results and that it would come immediately. Those results were anything but immediate. I was only playing a tournament here or there and still my results were mediocre. I decided I need to experiment. I wanted to incorporate these changes into my game but I wanted to do it with a high volume of tournaments. I also wanted to do it where there touraments had no impact on my bankroll. So that I would have that disregard for money Doyle Brunson always talks about. I clicked on Doin Sublime's $4.40 180 SNG challenge thread and saw how much success he was having in building his bankroll and I decided these 180's would be perfect for me. I played these for several weeks (not as many as I had intended because I was running so bad). I played about 100. My ROI was 22 percent which was WAY below what I was expecting (100%). Despite the lack of results, I knew my game had improved dramatically. I was so much better at accumulating chips. I used to always be a short or mid stack. Now my name was consistently up in the top 5. I just ran so bad at final tables that I wasn't getting the big top 3's that are crucial to your ROI. (I had 2 thirds I believe). Then, in the early stages of my own $4.40 challenge I chopped a bigger MTT for 5k. That was it for the $4.40s. I've had two significant final tables since in big field MTTs, a 2nd and a 6th. (All results in a month's span) My ROI in $22 180's is over 100%. Those numbers are nice but what the $4.40's did for me was let me experiment and also gain confidence by seeing for myself that what Annette and other top players were saying was right. I'm playing to win now, I don't even care what a minimum cash pays. That goes for the Sunday million too. I don't want a few thousand, I want $200k. My suggestion to you would be to try what I tried, it may help. Playing smaller field sizes reduces variance and helps with confidence, not to mention improving your bubble play and final two table play for when you get there in a bigger field MTT.

Copernicus is right. You're always playing the situation. Who's playing just to cash? Who's limping too much? Who never folds? Who are the worst players at the table? Find them and attack/isolate them. Stack sizes are crucially important. The times are countless in late position where I'd raise the blind and not realize that he was THAT short. That never happens now. One of Annette's best pieces of advice is not raise a lot when you are in the 12-15 (15-20) BB range with average hands because you can never call a shove. That was an area where I had major spew. Avoiding confrontaions with people that can hurt you. BKiCE helped me with that, he talks about switching from chip accumulator to chip preserver (specifically in regard to lower buyin tourneys).

Anyway, I've rambled enough. I suggest that you experiment, play a lot of volume and see where you are after that. One caveat, be careful with fancy play syndrome. When you had weak tight tendencies like myself and then you go to being tight but playing aggressive power poker you can go overboard and make too many -EV plays. I am constantly working on that balance. Good luck.
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