Villain is 12/2/2 with 100 hands...

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $19.85
UTG+1: $20
CO: $56.35
Hero: $81.90
SB: $49.70
BB: $44

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 5 6 8 8
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, CO folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: Q 8 7 ($2.5, 5 players)
SB bets $2.5, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 7 ($10, 3 players)
SB bets $3, UTG calls, Hero raises to $13, SB calls, UTG folds.

River: 9 ($39, 2 players)
SB bets $19.5, Hero....

I like raising the flop and then folding to a 3-bet. Someone this nitty won't 3-bet a tight player without top set.

Why are you flat calling with a set and oesd? If you're flat calling the flop it's because you're pretty sure villain has QQ. If so, you should flat call the turn and river as well.

I think the flop is an easy repot.

As played I like the turn raise, and I flat call the river. I don't understand his line and I want to see what he has. If you're losing value there, then at least some of it is made back by the info you gain.

BTW, bdc, if I could give you some general advice about flat-calling sets, it would be this: Don't do it. My off the cuff guess would be that 80-90% of the time when you flat-call a set, it's the wrong move.

I used to do it maybe 5% of the time and I've cut that back dramatically and I think it's really helped my game a lot. It's OK if you're up against a total maniac where you know he's betting the turn no matter what and you're happy C/Ring all-in even if a straight card hits or if you've got a super-dry board in a 3-bet pot, but most of the time, you're better off repotting.

It's easy to get into the trap of thinking "oh, he can't call with a worse set if I raise here", but it's almost always better to give them the chance. Here's a hand where I might have flat-called the flop raise in the past, but I did much better playing it aggressively:

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)

MP ($96.85)
CO ($158.40)
Hero ($575.85)
SB ($475.70)
BB ($258.10)
UTG ($234.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , 8 , 8 , J .
3 folds, Hero raises to $7, SB calls $6, BB calls $5.

Flop: ($21) 5 , 8 , 2 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $19.95, SB raises to $79.8, BB folds, Hero raises to $259.35, SB raises to $468.7, Hero calls $209.35.

Turn: ($958.40) 7 (2 players)

River: ($958.40) 4 (2 players)

Final Pot: $958.40

Results in white below:
SB has 2s 2h Qs 9d (three of a kind, twos).

Outcome: Hero wins $958.40.


I know that doesn't apply here very specifically since this isn't really a maximization situation, but just in general, never ever flat-calling a set is a great rule until you get really confident with your aggression level. It's the kind of play that can only be used very sparingly if it's to be profitable.

Iggy, I see the point you make about flat calling with sets, but that hand you posted doesn't quite compare to the one I did. You have top set on a 258r flop. To not be all in there all day every day is insane. In the hand here, I had second set on a Q87 two heart flop, with position, against a super-nit. I didn't have a heart draw, and only 4 cards give me the nuts (non heart 4's and the fourth 8). I want to see a turn here before committing a pile of money to this hand.

Once the board pairs on the turn, I put him to the test with a decent sized raise, which really surprised me when he flat called there. I mean, doesn't QQxx raise there?

When he leads out the river for ½ pot, I'm just about totally confused in to submission and can't find any value in raising a player this tight, so as Simo said, I flat call the $20.

Yeah, I said that it wasn't directly related. I was just thinking about it as a general point and figured that it would fit a little better here than in the LC thread. I was actually thinking about it when I was playing last night how much that adjustment had helped my game and it came to me again when I was on the toilet this morning. Just wanted to direct it to you since you look for advice more than most and you've been known to be on the passive side.

Anyway, the thing about the board pair here is that while it's generally a good card for us, now the most likely hand that we would have beaten (77) just took the lead ahead of us and the second most-likely (Q8) just got turned into garbage. Since there's nothing SB can call with that we beat (being a nit and all) and we're up against 2 outs tops, I'd probably just call the $3 and try to let UTG hit whatever he's drawing to. As played, I guess I'd call the river but I really doubt you're going to see a worse hand more than 1 time in 4.

Oh, and you should be raising preflop. You've got the button, you've got a pretty decent hand, and the poster at least is likely to have garbage.

Really? 5688r is a raise pre? You mean I have to now re-up and raise a different level of hands?? lol

I raise this preflop too.

Bud would possibly fold preflop, but he plays pretty tight.

You know UTG+1 has any 4 random cards (and probably not great cards too because he didn't raise), so you're basically on the button against 3 blinds.

Yeah. Had this thread in mind here.

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $71.30
UTG+1: $178.55
CO: $42.15
Hero: $54.45
SB: $75.20
BB: $133

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 8 J 8 J
2 folds, CO calls, Hero calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: T 5 J ($2, 4 players)
SB bets $1.5, BB folds, CO calls, Hero raises to $8, SB raises to $29, CO raises all-in $41.65, Hero raises all-in $53.95, SB calls.

Turn: K ($151.55, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $126.95, Sidepot 1: $24.6)


River: 4 ($151.55, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $126.95, Sidepot 1: $24.6)


Results:
Final pot: $151.55
CO showed Kc 3h 9h Qh
Hero showed 8s Jh 8d Jc
SB showed Ts Td 9d 8h

Very nice. If only you'd raised your premium double-paired hand on the button, you would have played it perfect.

Ever since this stupid thread I'm on fucking life tilt with sets.

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $20.50
Hero: $63.70
CO: $185
Button: $72.50
SB: $25.45
BB: $40.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 8 K 7 8
UTG calls, Hero calls, CO raises to $2.75, Button calls, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 8 2 5 ($9.5, 3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $9.5, Button raises to $38, Hero raises all-in $60.95, CO folds, Button calls.

Turn: A ($140.9, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $140.9)


River: 9 ($140.9, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $140.9)


Results:
Final pot: $140.9
Hero showed 8s Kh 7h 8d
Button showed 3h 4c 6h 6c