This is a live $1/$2 game. 10 players all decent, none exceptional.

I'm in MP with $250 w/ 8h 8d. Its folded to me I raise to $5 (five is a standard raise here because chips are 1 and 5 dollar denomenations so raises are usually either 5 or 10 dollars).

All 6 players behind me call.

$35 in pot. Flop comes 8c Jc 2s

SB makes it $20 to go its folded to me. SB has most chips at table with close to $400.
I decide to wait for turn to make a move with my three 8's and call.

One player on my left with around $300 calls behind me.

At this point this is my analysis. SB has AJ, KJ or perhaps two pair...player behind me on flush draw.

$95 in pot. Turn comes 8c Jc 2s Qh

SB move in for $380.

I have $230 left.

A) what do you think SB has
what do you do if your me

Sorry for not having any abbreviations or whatever...hope its not that hard to follow.

I call. SB could easily have JQ, 22 as easily as he could have 9T. He might even have AQ if he's really bad. Some kind of combo draw is possible as well.

This was my final analysis also...i want others to chime in though before i give you the outcome.

I raise the flop, always. I think not raising here is a really bad move. The board is fairly drawy and you're pricing in club draws, I wouldn't do that since its going to be very hard to get away from your hand.

My question deals with the turn primarily and the SB all in raise. I understand that I priced the flush in behind me on the flop, however that is if he sees two cards without another bet made. I'm not planning on letting the flush draw see the river (as I'm going to probably move in on the turn with any non-club card), so with one card to come (the turn card) he is not priced in if that makes sense. Let me put it another way, he is calling $20 to win $75 with 9 outs once. Thats on the flop. Assuming that the turn is not a club, and the SB doesn't bet, I'm going to bet $230 into a $95 pot... now the flush draw is calling $230 to win $325 with 9 outs once. Although the flush draw has smuch better odds on the turn...both sceneriors are a negative EV for him.

This is all assuming I fold to any future betting if a club comes on turn and he has no implied odds, which I do because i put him on a flush draw. This is also assuming that he has all of the 9 clubs left in the deck and none of the other 8 players have any and a club is not the first or second burn card.

You really need to raise with this hand here because if you had AA or AJ or a good draw, you'd be raising too. You really should play your hands similarly so that when you raise, they have to guess what you have.

With this many people seeing the flop and there being a relatively decent number of draws, calling here and letting someone else in for that cheaply is a big mistake.

Also, you saying that you're gonna overbet shove any non-club turn is ridiculous. Make a standard raise on the flop and let the club draws pay the wrong price there. You're helping any flush draw or OESD play well against you if you do what you're doing. Try and get value for your hand.

I call the turn here all of the time. You're almost always ahead and you have outs if you're not.

Also, welcome to the forum.

The Final Result.

Raising the flop would not have mattered. I almost folded to the SB's all in raise putting him on 9 10 for the straight, but the only 9 10 that I thought would have bet the flop was the 9 10 of clubs. He could have this hand one way. I think he would have similarly bet AJ QJ 22 or some other two pair combo. So I call his all in bet and the flush draw behind me folds.

SB shows me Jh Jd for 3 jacks.

River is the 3c which would have completed flush draw if last player had stayed in (he later told me he was on flush draw after hand).


BTW...this was the second time this player caught three of a kind ontop of a smaller three of a kind. What a rush huh...Thanks for playing and I'll look forward to input on future hand.

Welcome to the forum.

Results don't matter. Raising the flop does matter and would've mattered, especially since you let the other player draw to his flush on the turn for so cheaply.

If you're getting 6 callers with 88, you need to raise harder and get this hand heads up.
Bet the flop harder. You want as many chips in this pot as possible.

A - QJ
B - insta insta insta call

You can't fold here like ever. JJ is not really a hand you should be worried about and its sort of stupid that that is what he had. QJ 22 or some other random two pair are much more likely imo. Bad beataments.

Methinks this isn't true.

Ha ha, exactly what I thought when reading that.

I agree, if the player calling behind you IS on a flush draw you are letting him get there cheaply. You have to think SB is reasonably strong to lead into a six way pot so there is absolutely no reason to wait to raise.

I can't put him on anything beating you (except possibly T9) since QQ/JJ are not going to want to see a flop with six players.

Callllllllllllllllllllllllll.