Table open for 1 rotation
2/3NL Live 9 handed
max buyin is 200
hero 200
villain 200
MP2 200
c/o 200
button 150
hero is BB with 2,2
villain limp, mp2,c/o button, sb all call.. hero check.
5 players (pot 18)
flop 2h,3h,4c
sb check, hero bet 12, villain raise to 25, mp2 call 25, c/o call 25, button call 25. hero??
Full Version: Deuces Wild At New Table
Reraise big. Maybe $125, maybe $100, maybe just ship it to make it look like a draw.
QUOTE (Zach6668 @ Sunday, November 11th, 2007, 1:32 AM) 
Reraise big. Maybe $125, maybe $100, maybe just ship it to make it look like a draw.
lol, thanks for the response, but I'm looking for a definite answer. cuz Ya, I already had all those thoughts run through my mind while the table waited for my action
I'm wondering the best approach everyone loves in this spot.
Well, you have to reraise, imo.
The stack sizes just make it a bit difficult.
There's $140 in the pot already, we could ship for $185. I think I'd do that.
The stack sizes just make it a bit difficult.
There's $140 in the pot already, we could ship for $185. I think I'd do that.
your gonna have to raise this pot and your going to get stacked a lot. Make it $125 and hope for the case duce.
hm.
interesting.
i shovel here. there are two main things guiding that decision
- unlike normal, i'd really like to fold villain if he's holding a worse hand here - 2 pair. i think we're going to get multiple players here a lot because of all the dead $ in the pot. so, assuming villain and at least one of the other guys comes along (or one of them is slowplaying a str8), villain's gobbling up some of our equity (v. flush draws) or outs (v. str8s). if someone besides villain has 2 pair, i don't think his action changes much whether you shove and villain calls, or you raise and villain shoves. both sequences of actions in front of someone holding 2 pair send the same basic message - they're either gonna play or not. but if villain holds 2 pair, i think the chances of him folding it go up a little bit if you shove.
- we want to charge the max to draws, especially since more than one in the pot means they'll be blocking each other. with all the dead $ in there, they get at least 2-1 regardless of whether we shove and villain raises, or we raise and villain shoves. of course, their true odds are worse than 2-1, but all the more reason to make them call off more immediately.
the potential downside is that if villain has a str8 or an overset, we've just isolated ourselves against him, when we'd have better EV if more $ comes into the pot from the other players. but when he calls, there will be so much dead $ in the pot that flush draws will think they have the odds to call anyway.
btw, even if you were to think folding bottom set on a board like this is ok in rare instances, this isn't one of them because of all the dead $ in the pot.
interesting.
i shovel here. there are two main things guiding that decision
- unlike normal, i'd really like to fold villain if he's holding a worse hand here - 2 pair. i think we're going to get multiple players here a lot because of all the dead $ in the pot. so, assuming villain and at least one of the other guys comes along (or one of them is slowplaying a str8), villain's gobbling up some of our equity (v. flush draws) or outs (v. str8s). if someone besides villain has 2 pair, i don't think his action changes much whether you shove and villain calls, or you raise and villain shoves. both sequences of actions in front of someone holding 2 pair send the same basic message - they're either gonna play or not. but if villain holds 2 pair, i think the chances of him folding it go up a little bit if you shove.
- we want to charge the max to draws, especially since more than one in the pot means they'll be blocking each other. with all the dead $ in there, they get at least 2-1 regardless of whether we shove and villain raises, or we raise and villain shoves. of course, their true odds are worse than 2-1, but all the more reason to make them call off more immediately.
the potential downside is that if villain has a str8 or an overset, we've just isolated ourselves against him, when we'd have better EV if more $ comes into the pot from the other players. but when he calls, there will be so much dead $ in the pot that flush draws will think they have the odds to call anyway.
btw, even if you were to think folding bottom set on a board like this is ok in rare instances, this isn't one of them because of all the dead $ in the pot.
QUOTE (nomad_monad @ Sunday, November 11th, 2007, 2:28 AM)
hm.
interesting.
i shovel here. there are two main things guiding that decision
- unlike normal, i'd really like to fold villain if he's holding a worse hand here - 2 pair. i think we're going to get multiple players here a lot because of all the dead $ in the pot. so, assuming villain and at least one of the other guys comes along (or one of them is slowplaying a str8), villain's gobbling up some of our equity (v. flush draws) or outs (v. str8s). if someone besides villain has 2 pair, i don't think his action changes much whether you shove and villain calls, or you raise and villain shoves. both sequences of actions in front of someone holding 2 pair send the same basic message - they're either gonna play or not. but if villain holds 2 pair, i think the chances of him folding it go up a little bit if you shove.
- we want to charge the max to draws, especially since more than one in the pot means they'll be blocking each other. with all the dead $ in there, they get at least 2-1 regardless of whether we shove and villain raises, or we raise and villain shoves. of course, their true odds are worse than 2-1, but all the more reason to make them call off more immediately.
the potential downside is that if villain has a str8 or an overset, we've just isolated ourselves against him, when we'd have better EV if more $ comes into the pot from the other players. but when he calls, there will be so much dead $ in the pot that flush draws will think they have the odds to call anyway.
btw, even if you were to think folding bottom set on a board like this is ok in rare instances, this isn't one of them because of all the dead $ in the pot.
interesting.
i shovel here. there are two main things guiding that decision
- unlike normal, i'd really like to fold villain if he's holding a worse hand here - 2 pair. i think we're going to get multiple players here a lot because of all the dead $ in the pot. so, assuming villain and at least one of the other guys comes along (or one of them is slowplaying a str8), villain's gobbling up some of our equity (v. flush draws) or outs (v. str8s). if someone besides villain has 2 pair, i don't think his action changes much whether you shove and villain calls, or you raise and villain shoves. both sequences of actions in front of someone holding 2 pair send the same basic message - they're either gonna play or not. but if villain holds 2 pair, i think the chances of him folding it go up a little bit if you shove.
- we want to charge the max to draws, especially since more than one in the pot means they'll be blocking each other. with all the dead $ in there, they get at least 2-1 regardless of whether we shove and villain raises, or we raise and villain shoves. of course, their true odds are worse than 2-1, but all the more reason to make them call off more immediately.
the potential downside is that if villain has a str8 or an overset, we've just isolated ourselves against him, when we'd have better EV if more $ comes into the pot from the other players. but when he calls, there will be so much dead $ in the pot that flush draws will think they have the odds to call anyway.
btw, even if you were to think folding bottom set on a board like this is ok in rare instances, this isn't one of them because of all the dead $ in the pot.
I'm surprised you didnt mention villain's range.
I think besides any over sets, flopped straight, two over+FD, his range also includes 55-9,9 in EP right? Its the first rotation of the table, his min raise might be more information than it is strength.
with 0 reads at this table, I'm not folding a set here. even though its bottom set and coordinating, i'd sooner blame it on a cooler than let go a hand that might be way ahead right now. agree?
Agree we aren't folding here for stack sizes in a pot with this much dead money.
QUOTE (Royal_Tour @ Sunday, November 11th, 2007, 1:40 AM)
I'm surprised you didnt mention villain's range.
I think besides any over sets, flopped straight, two over+FD, his range also includes 55-9,9 in EP right? Its the first rotation of the table, his min raise might be more information than it is strength.
I think besides any over sets, flopped straight, two over+FD, his range also includes 55-9,9 in EP right? Its the first rotation of the table, his min raise might be more information than it is strength.
lol - reading comprehension pwned.
for some reason, i thought you were SB and villain was BB.
nevermind. he usually doesn't have 34 here. CO or Button might, which means we could thrust the same logic on them after villain folds most of his range to a shove. but we'd lose a ton of EV when a smaller raise induces villain to shove with a combo draw and builds a big pot for the other guys to join in.
QUOTE
with 0 reads at this table, I'm not folding a set here... agree?
of course
i don't think stacks are deep enough to do anything but shove flop when its back to us even though we are gonna have to dodge a brazilian outs. hey maybe the board will pair on turn and make it easy on us.
Shove.
I would insta-shove, but that's me.
ya, that villian probably has an overpair and would call the shove anyways. Shovel.
If you shove that gives anyone with a $200 stack 1.9:1 odds to call and a hand like Ah 9h is a 2.1:1 dog, so shoving is the only option to price out a flush draw.
DA CHARK SAYS ALLLL-EEEEEEN
QUOTE (Royal_Tour @ Sunday, November 11th, 2007, 12:07 AM)
Table open for 1 rotation
2/3NL Live 9 handed
max buyin is 200
hero 200
villain 200
MP2 200
c/o 200
button 150
hero is BB with 2,2
villain limp, mp2,c/o button, sb all call.. hero check.
5 players (pot 18)
flop 2h,3h,4c
sb check, hero bet 12, villain raise to 25, mp2 call 25, c/o call 25, button call 25. hero??
2/3NL Live 9 handed
max buyin is 200
hero 200
villain 200
MP2 200
c/o 200
button 150
hero is BB with 2,2
villain limp, mp2,c/o button, sb all call.. hero check.
5 players (pot 18)
flop 2h,3h,4c
sb check, hero bet 12, villain raise to 25, mp2 call 25, c/o call 25, button call 25. hero??
Shove. Seriously.
Most standard shovel ever.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.