http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/sto...amp;isFirearm=Y

A word of caution about the little Walthers: They're pretty good guns for cheap (as far as functionality) but my one gripe is that the front sight on my P-22 is just a little piece of plastic that's stuck into a groove on the front, they're barely attached and I ended up losing mine because it keeps flying off when fired (or when I draw the pistol from it's molded holster).

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/...l_time_low.html

April 08, 2009
Categories: Guns
Gun control support at all-time low

The heavy coverage of mass shootings in Binghamton, N.Y., North Carolina and Washington state and the cop killings in Pittsburgh has had little apparent effect on the nation's appetite for new gun laws.

A Gallup Poll out this morning shows support for a ban on private hand gun ownership at an all time low, with 29 percent of respondents saying they support such a law. It's the smallest percentage since Gallup started asking this question 50 years ago. Interestingly, gun control advocacy hit its all time high in 1959, according to this poll. It's important to note that the poll was taken before the massacre in Binghamton, but other mass shootings have been in the news for a few weeks.

The poll may show why virtually nobody in Congress is rolling out new gun control legislation. Indeed, when I served on a panel earlier this year with Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), he said there didn't seem to be any appetite for new gun control laws, even with a Democratic president and an expanded liberal majority in Congress.

Thanks for the responses. Today I bought a gun. I got a Springfield XD 40S&W. It was $545 after tax. It came with a case, two clips, a holster and a clip holster.

Congrats!



Have you cleaned it yet?

Have not got it home yet. Didn't have enough time on lunch to do the who background check thing so I paid for all but $1 and I will grad it tomorrow. What is my first step as a new gun owner?

First step: Stop calling magazines "clips".



Clip on the left, magazine on the right. Not the same thing, and you'll be mocked mercilessly if you use the terms mutually exclusively at the range or in the presence of an instructor. It's like telling the guy at Sears you need 4 new wheels when you really need 4 new tires. The clip goes inside the magazine.

Your second step: Find a range, and practice, practice, practice. Get yourself very familiar with the process of loading and unloading your pistol, learn how to field strip it so you can keep it clean. If you're a new shooter, take a safety course, nearly every range offers one.

Congrats on your purchase, we need some pictures.

The reason I asked is 1. That should be your first step (followed closely by AJs advice) and 2. The only Springfield I've field stripped was a BITCH to put back together with less than 3 hands or 2 hands and a vice. The spring and that puppy was tight.

Duly noted.

Tomorrow I will be buy a couple boxes of bullets (is this term acceptable?). My cousin hunts with a guy that has won gold in state shooting competitions. He will be teaching me some things Saturday.

Pics will be coming very soon.

Bullets is ok, you are not going to get laughed at, but better to refer to as AMMO, or ammunition.

I saw this story at the very bottom of the cnn stories list online a couple days ago. at first I was a little excited like "hey, looks like we don't have to worry so much now. that's great." then I realized that this administration hasn't really given a shit whether the public liked what they were doing or not so far, so why would this have any bearing on their decisions? probably won't.


nope. ammunition. the bullet is the projectile that is shot from the casing. the guys at the store will know what you mean and will help you, unless they're assholes, in which case they'll point you to the reloading stuff. but yeah, say you need ammo.


also, I highly advise you to take a handgun safety/certification course of some sort at some point in time (preferably one that can qualify you to get a concealed permit, in case you want one later, and you should). I've been shooting my entire life and when I took my course for my concealed, I still learned quite a bit from the instructor.

Reloading equipment is next on my list. My father-in-law used to reload alot after he got out of the army and has some old equipment. I played around with it for a while trying to figure it out and got hooked.

I have already started looking for a concealed carry class that will fit in the schedule. My dad wants to go to so this will happen soon.

Just ordered 500 rds of .380 and .40....time to go shootin!*

Also, Dad and I just did a gun count and we have 13 firearms in the house. I'd be shocked if we're not on some kind of watch list somewhere.






*In 4-7 weeks when it arrives, barring any other social obligations**




**Who am I trying to kid?

what? where in the hell did you find some?

georgia arms. it's gonna be nearly two months before they arrive though. It doesn't fire as clean as the top shelf stuff but it's far from the worst out there and at 130 for 500 rds it'll do.

http://www.dealerease.net/catalog/category...p;ret_id=319402



Maybe I should have put this in the fail pic thread.

I am looking to buy some reloading equipment now. Mainly for reloading 40 S&W. What do you guys suggest? I have never reloaded before. Learn by doing.

My dad is an ex-cop that now works for the state. He is going to sell his old 2" colt 38 and wants something he can carry as a backup in his pocket. He was thinking a Derringer, but he doesn't really want one. Any suggestions?

In floating around the web I've seen this question and ensuing debate pop up quite frequently. The best answer I've found was here: http://www.outdoors.net/site/features/feat...mp;curpage=1698


The summation:
"IMO the bottom line when selecting a gun for carry is how well you can shoot with it, and how effective it would be in the scenarios you are most likely to use it. There is no single answer for everyone, and the compromises of the real world will likely be in direct conflict with your first choice. There is no BEST carry gun. "

The Walther ppk or ppk/s are popular but I just read they are recalling all of them built since '02 because if you release the hammer with the safety on they were still discharging. Also, dad had one and it jammed constantly, close to every other round, and the recoil goes straight into the hand so it's no fun to practice with for more than a clip or two.

If he's wanting something small enough to carry in his pocket but with enough oomph to be practical in a social defense situation he probably is better off with a derringer.

I agree with the "there is no BEST gun", it's all personal preference. If he's looking for suggestions, the Kel-Tec P3AT (.380 caliber) is very popular for those who want something they can stick in their front pocket and forget about it. 7 shots of .380 and the total loaded weight is 10oz, you can't beat that. Especially not for less than $300.



I'm personally looking at a Kahr PM9 for my AMEX (never leave home without it) pocket carry pistol. It's a little bigger, a little heavier, and three times as much $$$, but it's 9mm and gets better reliability reviews.

Ok short question, I'll probably be back more later with a bigger spectrum of questions and history, backstory etc etc.

In NH it seems as if to carry a licensed pistol/revolver goes hand in hand with the ability to conceal said weapon. As to I wouldn't need to take a course to obtain a special permit to conceal it. Read the whole thread and Chrozzo had to do this?

Here is the exact bullet (pun!) point from the NH application to carry a resident pistol/revolver:
"License to carry is required to carry a loaded pistol or revolver
 in a motor vehicle or to carry a concealed, 
loaded pistol or revolver."

I know I can just call up the local police office and find this out from someone easily. Just wondering what you guys think.
I ask because the ability to get this license to carry is ridiculously easy (info, 5 questions, and references) and it doesn't seem like it should be that easy to conceal a weapon. So am I missing something here, or is there more to the process after this you think?

That's a tough call. I think I prefer the design of the top one as it appears as if it might be a little easier to pull from a pocket and .380 is good enough for close quarters with the right ammo.

This link should tell you all you need to know.

Actually, this one is better.

Q: Do I need a license to carry a gun?

A: Yes, but only for these two purposes (per RSA 159:4): (1) to carry a loaded handgun concealed upon the person, other than in your home or place of business (where you can do so without a license); and (2) to have a loaded handgun in a vehicle (whether the handgun is concealed or not).

I’m not sure if riding a motorcycle or bicycle is considered being “in a vehicle”; maybe your lawyer can answer that, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s always wise to take a conservative approach to these questions.

Note that you may not have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle, by the way (per fish and game law RSA 207:7 – where “vehicle” means a motor vehicle, aircraft, or powered or towed boat, but apparently not an unpowered rowboat or canoe).

Looks like having a handgun permit means having a permit to carry concealed, to simply own a handgun doesn't appear to require a permit.

just my two cents.

Guns are bad.
Americans love guns.
I am not American.


I had never seen a gun up close until I was around 30 years old. My wife is American and while visiting her family, I was introduced to guns. They all have guns there. I was scared but they made me go to a shooting range(outdoors) , where we walked up and started shooting.

I shot some gun, not sure what it was. It had some kick to it..I was scared.

Thats my gun story.

This is a terrible story.

I did NOT see that plot twist in the 3rd act coming.

Bolded = Italicized.

Hank or Adam,

Have either of you heard anything good/bad about these. How about actually being able to fit it your pocket?

Glock 26

I looked at a G26 as a possible candidate for my AMEX, and what I determined was that, for me, it's a little too big and a little too thick to suit my purpose for an everyday, pocket-carry pistol. It's important to note that the Glock's are almost all double-stack pistols, meaning they sacrifice slimness for more mag capacity. Single stack's such as the Kahr hold about half as many rounds, but nearly disappear in your pocket (so I'm told anyway, I haven't tested one yet).

You can see the difference here, Kahr single stack on top, Glock double stack on bottom:



I know some folks on other forums have claimed success with the subcompact Glock's as a front pocket or cargo-shorts pocket pistol, but that's just what I found when I held one and sized it up. Opinions may vary, your Dad will just want to hit up his local shop and see for himself.

how accurate are these pistols you guys are talking about carrying around concealed.

I can appreciate the power a pistol can have in diffusing a situation that has gotten out of control, but if the situation deteriorated more and you had to engage a person with it how confident do you feel to be successful? At the shooting range you shoot a stationary target at a distance of, I dunno, 50 yards? In a real life high tension scenario what range would be too far? what if the target was moving?

50 yds is a helluva long shot for a pistol. When I practice it's 15-25 ft. Right around that radius is considered the "danger zone" in which a potential assailant could readily attack you. If you're shooting a pistol beyond 50ft you're just showing off or doing it for shits and giggles not any serious kind of "training."

For a concealed carry piece: any confrontation you get into, where you might stand any chance in hell of not getting convicted of brandishing or assault, is most likely going to happen withing 20ft or so at the outside. So all you have to do is be confident with the weapon at around that max. distance.


Guapmole, (prounounce waaaaaa POE MOE loeee)

What aj said. Couple of caveats:

1) these small guns in a caliber like .40S&W are gonna have some serious recoil issues to contend with so he better be excellent at the first round on the draw.

2) I don't care for Glocks as "pocket guns" because the safety is in the trigger and if it were to get hung up he might end up sans a testicle or two.

If you shoot someone at 50 yards (half a football field), you'd better get yourself an excellent attorney because self-defense is basically out the window.

You would want to train at distances of roughly 3-15 yards, you won't be effective in a life threatening situation much higher than that, and your legal obligation to flee rather than fight increases with every step further away your attacker is. More than 15 yards is really only for sport and competition.

I agree with this. I would not be comfortable carrying a gun in my pocket without an external safety. I have a glock 17 for a range gun and absolutely love it. I think that the 3 safeties that they advertise are a joke but I do like how it's such a simple point and shoot gun. I also have it for home protection but it would be pretty much worthless since I keep it locked up in a case with a safety lock on it.

Is there any reason why you guys don't want a holster that goes on the inside of your pants? I have no experience with one but I've heard they are very good at concealment.

so say I'm at 20 yards from a guy with what appears to be a pistol and I decide to run, chances are he won't be able to it me.

interesting. seems short.

I don't know that I'd go that far, but your chances are much better at 18 meters than 3. Try this experiment. Take an ordinary paper grocery bag and put enough weight in it to keep it from blowing away. Sit it on a sidewalk then take about 30 steps from it and look at it. The grocery bag is about the size of the human torso (assuming you don't have freakishly large or small bags in Quebec, dunno, never been there) and that's what you're trying to hit with something about the size of a large medicine capsule.

Shot an AR-15 in Vegas last weekend. Loved how it felt and shot. It was a good trip to the range.

Tom.

completely agree with this if it's going in a pocket. I love my glock but I never keep one chambered for this very reason (I like my testicles). but also:


I was wondering about this too. I have a glock 23, which is the mid range .40 (in terms of concealment capabilities) and I have a concealed carry holster for it that goes around back and it actually works pretty well. won't be concealed with just a tshirt, but pretty much any other kind of shirt and you'd be fine. probably even better if you're fat or black and wear big clothes.

Just want to say- it's been a while since I've priced bulk ammo....

HOLY. MOTHER. OF. FUCK, it's gone up like 500% in a few years!

I remember $89 1000 round cases of Wold 762X39, being able to buy 1K of 556 for under $200, 1K of 9MM for under $140, and we're not talking about "way back in the day", either. I was ordering them online for those prices...

I had heard ammo had "gone up" but since I can't shoot guns anymore I haven't really been keeping up with the finer points; in no way was I expecting anything like 300%, 400%, 500% price increases etc. Holy shit, that's unreal. We used to burn a case of Wolf 762X39 in a single day between a couple of us and not think anything about it. I've shot up a case of 9MM by myself in a single day.

No way *in hell* I could afford that shit now when the cases we paid $89 for now sell for over $550

Adam,

My dad really liked the Kahr. Being in CA, do you know the best way for him to test it out and the purchase. Even though he was a cop he has not bought a gun in 20 years. The last gun he got (Sig P226) I bought him for Xmas in 1995 or 96. Other than that, he had always just acquired guns.

I wan an AK47. Are they legal?

That's cool, I'm glad he liked it. Obviously actually firing the weapon will be the best test for whether it's a fit or not, and I don't have any experience with gun purchases or local firing ranges in California. I've read on other forums that a lot of public ranges will rent out house weapons for you to try right on the spot (as long as you buy your ammo from them, obviously), so he might have some luck calling around to local ranges and seeing if they have a PM9 he could test out.

Another good thing would be to try and find a local dealer that has a range onsite, we don't have any of those around my area (Upstate NY) but I know they exist and I'd think that Cali would have a fair number of them.

You can use this link to find local shooting ranges, from there it would really be a matter of calling and asking for guidance from someone local. If you have a favorite local gun shop, they would probably be able to point you in the right direction as well.

You can own a semi-auto AK47 legally most anywhere, but the full auto versions require a lot of extra paperwork, if full auto is even legal in your area. You'll have to make the purchase from a Class 3 dealer, there will be forms that have to be filled out (and fingerprinting, and photographing...) and sent to various agencies (much the same as applying for a pistol permit), and if approved, you have to apply for a tax stamp to be legally permitted to acquire the weapon (costs $200 most everywhere that full auto is legal).

Basically, if you're going to go through all that, don't get an AK. Get something worth the effort.

... plus, the grandfathered right to have that little sear hole in your receiver will cost you an extra $15,000 over a comparable $400 semi-auto one. The ugliness with NFA isn't just the extra hassle- it's the obscene cost for grandfathered, transferable paperwork.

I see somebody hasn't priced scary guns in a while.

No shit?
My initial instinct was to say "$300 semi-auto one" but I added in another $100 just to be on the safe side (I remember buying SAR2's from AIM for $249 in 2002 )

How much are AKs now?

(edig- hooray google: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124365176 LOLOLOLOLOLOL I have like 4 that I bought in 02 for the afforementioned $249 + $25 FFL fee. They're all with a relative now since I can't have them, but I might request he thin the herd a bit if they're selling for that much)

Wow. Just ****ing wow... This inspired me to look further at prices.
Basically, if you'd put your money in guns and ammo in 2002 rather than the stock market, you would be up anywhere from 150%-500%.

Un. Freaking. Real.

The Saiga 12 was the last gun I bought- I paid $259 for it on closeout from CDNN when EAA stopped importing them, but I knew those were destined to get more popular once the Tactical Toms blessed them (one thing about the "gun community" - not much critical thinking skill there. They weren't able to figure out if something was good or not until it became popular and annointed by either the military, law enforcement or competitive shooters. My $269 HS2000's (now known as the Springfield Armory XD) was probably the best example of that. I crowed about those ****ers forever and no one listened until Springfield Armory bought the rights and priced them on par with a Glock. THEN, all of a sudden, everyone loves them.)

I have 2000 rounds of this sitting in two wooden crates with my uncle that I paid $179 for at a gun show in 1999. According to that auction, it's now about $2800 worth. Just positively amazing.

oh man, that's actually a deal compared to the one's I've seen. went to a gun show last december and all they had was romanian (crapiest ones from my research) and they were between $800 and a grand. I had gone intending to buy one but scRRRREEEEW that.

I have a lot of "I Told You So's" ready to dish out to a lot of people.
During the age of massive quantities of dirt cheap 922r compliant 'parts kits guns', I warned a lot of people in 1999-2002 that "the good old days" were now and to buy like mother****ers (for example, put off buying that new deer rifle and use the old one for a few more seasons... Use that $1K to buy three AK's) but a lot of them mocked me saying that "GUN CONTROL IS DEAD!" and that things would stay that way forever...

Of course, I didn't always listen to my own advice.
I had uncle sell off my three CETME's and my one FAL when money got short a couple years back. Wish I had kept those... I paid $299 for those CETMES from AIM Surplus. I see they're now selling for like $800.

L. O. Fvcking. L at the world. At least I did put my money where my mouth was for the most part and will come out the other end OK, unlike the poor assholes who waited until now to buy. Still, lots of regrets over the things I sold or traded away. I had a pretty firm standing rule that I wouldn't ever trade a mean rifle for anything other than another mean rifle (for this very reason- I knew this was coming, I saw it in 1990 when I was a kid living next to Armadillo Arms in Portland and the first Bush ban created maniacal buying..), but I flexed that rule a few times, now to my regret. I *knew* one could always buy more Glocks or Ruger G100's but the day would come when the AK well dried up, yet I still made a few of those trades. Damnit.

Thx Adam. He is going to get the Kahr 380.

Looks like a sweet little pistol, let me know what he thinks after he fires it and carries it around for a bit. Like Hank said, for a backup gun in close quarters .380 should do just fine.

How much?