Also, I saw in the other thread Beans was talking about just being able to purchase the receiver with the SN on it now and then buy the other components afterwards since all the ATF cares about is the part with the SN on it...This is more the thing I'm wondering about right now since I really don't have a need for an M4 right now (does anybody?) but I would just like to be able to purchase one before the supposed incoming ban before the prices skyrocket.
If i go the receiver route do I need to buy the lower or upper receiver or both before the "ban"?
Do I need to get any sort of license to purchase an AR in Iowa?
What do you mainly do with your M4? Go to ranges and shoot shit? Play Delta Force on private property?
There's a gunshow this weekend in Des Moines that I'm going to be going to, if anything just to look around, so that'll be fun. Maybe if there's a good deal I'll buy one, but I doubt I will be coming home with a gun this weekend.
I'm sure there will be more questions to come.
Full Version: Official Firearms Thread
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Sunday, October 26th, 2008, 12:01 PM) 
Also, I saw in the other thread Beans was talking about just being able to purchase the receiver with the SN on it now and then buy the other components afterwards since all the ATF cares about is the part with the SN on it...This is more the thing I'm wondering about right now since I really don't have a need for an M4 right now (does anybody?) but I would just like to be able to purchase one before the supposed incoming ban before the prices skyrocket.
If i go the receiver route do I need to buy the lower or upper receiver or both before the "ban"?
If i go the receiver route do I need to buy the lower or upper receiver or both before the "ban"?
In the 1994 ban, it was determined that the receiver had to be assembled into a "complete firearm" prior to the ban in order to be considered legitimately "pre ban". Thing is, this was 100% unenforceable in the cases of people who bought stripped lowers prior to that, as how could you prove whether the receiver had or hadn't been assembled into a functional firearm prior to the ban being enacted?
One thing I think is a HUGE mistake is for us to assume that a future ban would take the shape of past bans. The past ban left epic loopholes, simply because it was a bill that addressed the technical minutiae of firearms, written by people who were totally ignorant about that stuff. As such, gun owners were able to circumvent a lot of the regulations by parsing down the languages of various laws, etc.
Round II gun with Democrats having run the table in our seats of office will be something 'solid'. It won't be a gushy, feel-good type legislation that is virtually ineffective. It won't let you just remove the bayonet lug and flash hider to have, effectively, the exact same gun as was intended to be banned. They learned a lot, from the last ban. They saw what tactics and methods could be used to circumvent their 'intent'.
It could just as easily target replacement parts as it does "receivers", so I wouldn't exactly think that buying a stripped lower is Olly Olly Oxen Free, I got's me an AR.
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Sunday, October 26th, 2008, 2:01 PM)
Also, I saw in the other thread Beans was talking about just being able to purchase the receiver with the SN on it now and then buy the other components afterwards since all the ATF cares about is the part with the SN on it...This is more the thing I'm wondering about right now since I really don't have a need for an M4 right now (does anybody?) but I would just like to be able to purchase one before the supposed incoming ban before the prices skyrocket.
If i go the receiver route do I need to buy the lower or upper receiver or both before the "ban"?
Do I need to get any sort of license to purchase an AR in Iowa?
What do you mainly do with your M4? Go to ranges and shoot shit? Play Delta Force on private property?
There's a gunshow this weekend in Des Moines that I'm going to be going to, if anything just to look around, so that'll be fun. Maybe if there's a good deal I'll buy one, but I doubt I will be coming home with a gun this weekend.
I'm sure there will be more questions to come.
If i go the receiver route do I need to buy the lower or upper receiver or both before the "ban"?
Do I need to get any sort of license to purchase an AR in Iowa?
What do you mainly do with your M4? Go to ranges and shoot shit? Play Delta Force on private property?
There's a gunshow this weekend in Des Moines that I'm going to be going to, if anything just to look around, so that'll be fun. Maybe if there's a good deal I'll buy one, but I doubt I will be coming home with a gun this weekend.
I'm sure there will be more questions to come.
All I can really speak to is my experience. I was looking at getting an M4 a few years ago while the ban was still in place and a telescoping stock was illegal on new rifles. The upper typically only comes into play in terms of barrel length, so I would definitely look at getting the lower first since that's where the SN is and the part that has the stock attached.
As far as license to purchase an M4 it's considered a rifle and therefore no special permit is required.
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_ia.htm
I guess Iowa does have a rabbit/squirrel "season." I always just used the "R rule" when hunting wabbits. Any month ending in R meant it was killin' n' eatin time. http://www.iowadnr.com/news/08aug/rabbit.html
I use all my guns for making holes in paper. I would loooooooove to meet some old farmer with lots of land around here to take my guns out and plink on, but alas, I'm stuck using the range for now.
--edit
and amscray makes a good point about banners learning from the mistakes they've made previously. However, it's not necessarily panic time right this second. I would guess that you have 6-8 months before anything comprehensive can get pushed through congress and take effect. So start saving your pennies and pick up a complete rifle when you can.
QUOTE (hank213 @ Sunday, October 26th, 2008, 3:20 PM)
All I can really speak to is my experience. I was looking at getting an M4 a few years ago while the ban was still in place and a telescoping stock was illegal on new rifles. The upper typically only comes into play in terms of barrel length, so I would definitely look at getting the lower first since that's where the SN is and the part that has the stock attached.
As far as license to purchase an M4 it's considered a rifle and therefore no special permit is required.
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_ia.htm
I guess Iowa does have a rabbit/squirrel "season." I always just used the "R rule" when hunting wabbits. Any month ending in R meant it was killin' n' eatin time. http://www.iowadnr.com/news/08aug/rabbit.html
]I use all my guns for making holes in paper. I would loooooooove to meet some old farmer with lots of land around here to take my guns out and plink on, but alas, I'm stuck using the range for now.
--edit
and amscray makes a good point about banners learning from the mistakes they've made previously. However, it's not necessarily panic time right this second. I would guess that you have 6-8 months before anything comprehensive can get pushed through congress and take effect. So start saving your pennies and pick up a complete rifle when you can.
As far as license to purchase an M4 it's considered a rifle and therefore no special permit is required.
http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/p/gunlaws_ia.htm
I guess Iowa does have a rabbit/squirrel "season." I always just used the "R rule" when hunting wabbits. Any month ending in R meant it was killin' n' eatin time. http://www.iowadnr.com/news/08aug/rabbit.html
]I use all my guns for making holes in paper. I would loooooooove to meet some old farmer with lots of land around here to take my guns out and plink on, but alas, I'm stuck using the range for now.
--edit
and amscray makes a good point about banners learning from the mistakes they've made previously. However, it's not necessarily panic time right this second. I would guess that you have 6-8 months before anything comprehensive can get pushed through congress and take effect. So start saving your pennies and pick up a complete rifle when you can.
This guy.
So, maybe I will just buy a complete M4...definetly going to check it out at the gun show and theres a few more coming up nearby after that.
I was hoping this would become more widely available in the next few years, but it'll almost assuredly be on the next ban list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK416
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK416
QUOTE (beans-n-icewater @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 2:05 PM)
Nah, I didnt forget you.... I started writing something out, got distracted by the phone and never completed it.
You cant buy a new M4 thanks to the nineteen eighty six ban, but you can have a replica without the select fire capability and fourteen inch barrel
The last worthless ban in ninety four didnt allow threaded barrels, retractable stocks, or bayonet lugs on any lower purchased after it took effect. I found out from my FFL buddy that the five Bushmaster lowers I had on order went from eighty nine dollars to four hundred dollars as soon as the ban was announced. Needless to say Ill never deal with those greedy bastards ever again.
Anyway, if you have a few bucks to spend, Id order a few stripped lowers to have on hand just in case something like that happens again
Essential Arms AR-15 Stripped Lower. COMPLETE AR-15 LOWER RECEIVER. FORGED FROM 7075 T6 ALUMINUM. 5.56MM./223. SMALL PIN.
Select OPTIONS
$85.00
You then will have a "pre ban" gun without tying up a lot of cash in the rest of the gun. Parts sets to complete it run around five hundred bucks for a sixteen inch M4 replica or a full size twenty incher
You can pick up a copy of the Shotgun News and find "NOS" (new old stock) M16 uppers, stocks, bolts, and carriers to complete it for less than that but sometimes the finish of the upper and lower dont quite match. Once in a while youll find a complete kit for less than three hundred but most of those are VietNam era sixteens that use a large hole pin that requires an adapter to fit on the newer style small pin lowers
Be sure and never use and M16 fire control parts (hammer, trigger, disconnecter, and safety) in the lower or the extended tang bolt carrier in an AR15. The ATF declared that even just one part from a machine gun in a semi makes it an illegal NFA weapon. Ten years and over ten thousand in fines and it doesnt even matter if it shoots auto or not. Plus it isnt safe to use the sixteen safety, trigger, and disconnecter without the auto sear anyway. The hammer will follow the carrier forward after the first shot and cause a "slam fire" that could happen with the bolt unlocked. Kaboom.
If you want a more realistic M4 replica, send in a completed form1 document for an "SBR" (short barreled rifle) to the ATF, fingerprint cards, and two hundred bucks. When you get it back you can buy one of those sexy fourteen inch or shorter barrels for the upper.
If you really want a "real" M4, go to Subguns.com and search thru the NFA weapons for sale. You can probably find a pre eight six converted M16 for eight to ten grand. Put a fourteen inch upper and retractable stock on it and youre good to go. Keep in mind that registered machineguns can have any length barrel you want on them without the two hundred dollar SBR stamp requirement.
Ad Number: 14080
Date Posted: 10/28/2008
Price: $10,495.00
Text of Ad
Just Arrived
SP158263RS
Colt SP1 converted to M16 with a Commando Barrel in very nice condition
$10,495.00
Price includes S&H and Insurance
Florida residents are subject to Florida Sales tax.
You may think that ten grand is alot for a gun, but just remember no more can ever be manufactured. Whats out there now is all can ever be sold. I bought mine several years ago for less than half that. Excellent investment, especially for someone as young as you are
You cant buy a new M4 thanks to the nineteen eighty six ban, but you can have a replica without the select fire capability and fourteen inch barrel
The last worthless ban in ninety four didnt allow threaded barrels, retractable stocks, or bayonet lugs on any lower purchased after it took effect. I found out from my FFL buddy that the five Bushmaster lowers I had on order went from eighty nine dollars to four hundred dollars as soon as the ban was announced. Needless to say Ill never deal with those greedy bastards ever again.
Anyway, if you have a few bucks to spend, Id order a few stripped lowers to have on hand just in case something like that happens again
Essential Arms AR-15 Stripped Lower. COMPLETE AR-15 LOWER RECEIVER. FORGED FROM 7075 T6 ALUMINUM. 5.56MM./223. SMALL PIN.
Select OPTIONS
$85.00
You then will have a "pre ban" gun without tying up a lot of cash in the rest of the gun. Parts sets to complete it run around five hundred bucks for a sixteen inch M4 replica or a full size twenty incher
You can pick up a copy of the Shotgun News and find "NOS" (new old stock) M16 uppers, stocks, bolts, and carriers to complete it for less than that but sometimes the finish of the upper and lower dont quite match. Once in a while youll find a complete kit for less than three hundred but most of those are VietNam era sixteens that use a large hole pin that requires an adapter to fit on the newer style small pin lowers
Be sure and never use and M16 fire control parts (hammer, trigger, disconnecter, and safety) in the lower or the extended tang bolt carrier in an AR15. The ATF declared that even just one part from a machine gun in a semi makes it an illegal NFA weapon. Ten years and over ten thousand in fines and it doesnt even matter if it shoots auto or not. Plus it isnt safe to use the sixteen safety, trigger, and disconnecter without the auto sear anyway. The hammer will follow the carrier forward after the first shot and cause a "slam fire" that could happen with the bolt unlocked. Kaboom.
If you want a more realistic M4 replica, send in a completed form1 document for an "SBR" (short barreled rifle) to the ATF, fingerprint cards, and two hundred bucks. When you get it back you can buy one of those sexy fourteen inch or shorter barrels for the upper.
If you really want a "real" M4, go to Subguns.com and search thru the NFA weapons for sale. You can probably find a pre eight six converted M16 for eight to ten grand. Put a fourteen inch upper and retractable stock on it and youre good to go. Keep in mind that registered machineguns can have any length barrel you want on them without the two hundred dollar SBR stamp requirement.
Ad Number: 14080
Date Posted: 10/28/2008
Price: $10,495.00
Text of Ad
Just Arrived
SP158263RS
Colt SP1 converted to M16 with a Commando Barrel in very nice condition
$10,495.00
Price includes S&H and Insurance
Florida residents are subject to Florida Sales tax.
You may think that ten grand is alot for a gun, but just remember no more can ever be manufactured. Whats out there now is all can ever be sold. I bought mine several years ago for less than half that. Excellent investment, especially for someone as young as you are
Cross posted so as to not bring to much gun talk into the sickie thread. I'll have a few questions when I read through it all a little more.
beans: can NFA guns be modified at all once you buy them? like stocks and stuff? I'd imagine they could be but you never know.
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 1:46 PM)
beans: can NFA guns be modified at all once you buy them? like stocks and stuff? I'd imagine they could be but you never know.
Yes, for machine guns. You can't convert a SBR into a MG, but registered MG's are virtually open-ended as far as the mods you can do to them.
The only outlying restriction is a substantial modification that completely alters the nature of the firearm. For a time, some guys were making belt-fed upper receivers (M60, I think?) that used NFA MAC11's lower receivers as the firing mechanism. This effectively allowed someone to spend $3K on a NFA Mac 11, another $15K on their upper-receiver and have a full auto belt fed MG that would have cost $40K if it were "original".
ATF nixed this, pretty arbitrarily so.
ok, so new stocks, grips, barrels and such should be ok then. cool, now all I have to do is come up with ~ 20k and I'm golden!
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 1:59 PM)
ok, so new stocks, grips, barrels and such should be ok then. cool, now all I have to do is come up with ~ 20k and I'm golden!
You could start by selling your mower.
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 1:59 PM)
ok, so new stocks, grips, barrels and such should be ok then. cool, now all I have to do is come up with ~ 20k and I'm golden!
The reg M16 he posted is actually down a noticeable bit from the hardcore 'transferable mania' pricing of 2005/2006, when that same gun would've been $12,500 or $13,000. $10K isn't bad at all...
I remember turning down a m16 lower for $3500 in 99. Kinda glad I did since the whole "can't own guns anymore" would've made NFA disposal an epic pain in the ass, but yeah, there's huge demand for them and a very limited supply.
If you are considering buying one, I would see if you can't find a drop in auto sear. They're basically a little magical "device" that allows you to drop it into an AR15 (with the addition of some M16 components) that go full auto. SOme people wisely serialized them and registered them as "machineguns" prior to May 86. If you have a catastrophic malfunction that toasts your registered M16 receiver, you're going to have to gather up the pieces and pay for a very, very costly rewelding. If you have a catastrophic malfunction with a DIAS, you laugh at the loss of your $89 lower receiver and pick up your $12,000 "machinegun" part unharmed.
Ok, so, what about something like this
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114343848
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...40a2eac956246c6
Do I just then buy a lower receiver and the lower action parts and put it together? Does it need to be the same brand for the lower receiver? Are those bad quality guns? Do I want to get the chrome lined barrel and chamber?
I think that's what I want though. The M4 Carbine, A3, with the 14.5" barrel. Thoughts?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114343848
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...40a2eac956246c6
Do I just then buy a lower receiver and the lower action parts and put it together? Does it need to be the same brand for the lower receiver? Are those bad quality guns? Do I want to get the chrome lined barrel and chamber?
I think that's what I want though. The M4 Carbine, A3, with the 14.5" barrel. Thoughts?
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 2:07 PM)
Ok, so, what about something like this
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114343848
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...40a2eac956246c6
Do I just then buy a lower receiver and the lower action parts and put it together? Does it need to be the same brand for the lower receiver? Are those bad quality guns? Do I want to get the chrome lined barrel and chamber?
I think that's what I want though. The M4 Carbine, A3, with the 14.5" barrel. Thoughts?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=114343848
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...40a2eac956246c6
Do I just then buy a lower receiver and the lower action parts and put it together? Does it need to be the same brand for the lower receiver? Are those bad quality guns? Do I want to get the chrome lined barrel and chamber?
I think that's what I want though. The M4 Carbine, A3, with the 14.5" barrel. Thoughts?
Your barrel has to be a minimum of 16" if it's a Title 1 AR15. It doesn't have to be the same brand lower, since virtually all AR parts in production are mil spec.My favorite old AR from back in the day was a DPMS lower with a Bushy upper.
I strongly believe that there are advantages to chrome, but if you go to a site like ar15.com, you will see threads where knowledgeable people debate this till their blue in teh face. The lower receiver will have to be transferred in through a FFL dealer, since that is the serialized part that's considered to be the "gun". Everything else you can have shipped to your door.
Also, I don't know where you're from, but if "Napa" has anything to do with CA, then it's a no-no. But other than that, they're pretty easy to put together. Just get an AR15 armorers wrench and a good book and rock out.
So, something like this?
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...products_id=283
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...products_id=289
And I live in Iowa, so, not a problem.
Edit: I think I like the look of the first one better instead.
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...products_id=283
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...products_id=289
And I live in Iowa, so, not a problem.
Edit: I think I like the look of the first one better instead.
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 1:46 PM)
beans: can NFA guns be modified at all once you buy them? like stocks and stuff? I'd imagine they could be but you never know.
Scram covered this.... its a shame the ATF ruled the way it did because you could modify almost any semi gun to legally shoot full auto by using a registered DIAS. Put it in a belt fed one day and a modified Uzi or something the next. Sigh
QUOTE (AmScray @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 2:04 PM)
If you are considering buying one, I would see if you can't find a drop in auto sear. They're basically a little magical "device" that allows you to drop it into an AR15 (with the addition of some M16 components) that go full auto. SOme people wisely serialized them and registered them as "machineguns" prior to May 86. If you have a catastrophic malfunction that toasts your registered M16 receiver, you're going to have to gather up the pieces and pay for a very, very costly rewelding. If you have a catastrophic malfunction with a DIAS, you laugh at the loss of your $89 lower receiver and pick up your $12,000 "machinegun" part unharmed.
Ive never liked those DIAS. I see the advantage of risking the registered receiver blowing up and all, but something about that extra hole above the selector switch makes it more "right"
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 2:14 PM)
So, something like this?
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...40a2eac956246c6
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...products_id=289
And I live in Iowa, so, not a problem.
Edit: I think I like the look of the first one better instead.
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...40a2eac956246c6
http://akpartskits.com/cart/index.php?main...products_id=289
And I live in Iowa, so, not a problem.
Edit: I think I like the look of the first one better instead.
Yeah, any of those kits will have everything less the lower. You can also buy the parts separately from other manufacturers and maybe save a few bucks. Chrome barrels are nice to have if you plan on shooting corrosive ammo sometimes found cheap at gun shows.
Anybody have this book or can refer a better book? Sounds like what I'd need to put together the gun myself.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-AR-15-M16-S...1485&sr=8-2
I'm so excited to head to the gun show this weekend and talk to a few dealers.
Any recommendations on good ammo to just use for target shooting? Oh man do I love guns.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-AR-15-M16-S...1485&sr=8-2
I'm so excited to head to the gun show this weekend and talk to a few dealers.
Any recommendations on good ammo to just use for target shooting? Oh man do I love guns.
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 3:14 PM)
Anybody have this book or can refer a better book? Sounds like what I'd need to put together the gun myself.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-AR-15-M16-S...1485&sr=8-2
I'm so excited to head to the gun show this weekend and talk to a few dealers.
Any recommendations on good ammo to just use for target shooting? Oh man do I love guns.
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-AR-15-M16-S...1485&sr=8-2
I'm so excited to head to the gun show this weekend and talk to a few dealers.
Any recommendations on good ammo to just use for target shooting? Oh man do I love guns.
Most of those kits will already have the barrel installed, but check first and if they dont just buy an armorers wrench to tighten the barrel nut
I wouldnt waste the cash on the book unless you just want it. The AR is easy to assemble just using exploded diagrams found all over the net.
Step by step guide
Read thru these threads
I'm sure most of you know about this already, but just in case Ammo Deal Finder
Looking at it seems Wolf is the cheapest, but I thought I read in here that Wolf ammo suck, but I think it was in relation to pistols...is this true for the .223 too?
I guess reading the AR-15 forums as long as you clean out your barrel every couple hundred rounds, people are saying it should be fine using Wolf ammo. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this. I think it'd be fun to eventually repress my own ammo but for now I'll just stick to assembling the gun.
What kind do you use Hank/Sal/Beans for just target shooting?
Looking at it seems Wolf is the cheapest, but I thought I read in here that Wolf ammo suck, but I think it was in relation to pistols...is this true for the .223 too?
I guess reading the AR-15 forums as long as you clean out your barrel every couple hundred rounds, people are saying it should be fine using Wolf ammo. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this. I think it'd be fun to eventually repress my own ammo but for now I'll just stick to assembling the gun.
What kind do you use Hank/Sal/Beans for just target shooting?
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 8:17 PM)
I'm sure most of you know about this already, but just in case Ammo Deal Finder
Looking at it seems Wolf is the cheapest, but I thought I read in here that Wolf ammo suck, but I think it was in relation to pistols...is this true for the .223 too?
I guess reading the AR-15 forums as long as you clean out your barrel every couple hundred rounds, people are saying it should be fine using Wolf ammo. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this. I think it'd be fun to eventually repress my own ammo but for now I'll just stick to assembling the gun.
What kind do you use Hank/Sal/Beans for just target shooting?
Looking at it seems Wolf is the cheapest, but I thought I read in here that Wolf ammo suck, but I think it was in relation to pistols...is this true for the .223 too?
I guess reading the AR-15 forums as long as you clean out your barrel every couple hundred rounds, people are saying it should be fine using Wolf ammo. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this. I think it'd be fun to eventually repress my own ammo but for now I'll just stick to assembling the gun.
What kind do you use Hank/Sal/Beans for just target shooting?
Wolf is really, really dirty. If you're not gonna shoot more than a clip you might be ok. I've used Silver Bear which was so-so, I bought a shitload of PNC Remington but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet.
QUOTE (Napa_Don @ Tuesday, October 28th, 2008, 10:17 PM)
I'm sure most of you know about this already, but just in case Ammo Deal Finder
Looking at it seems Wolf is the cheapest, but I thought I read in here that Wolf ammo suck, but I think it was in relation to pistols...is this true for the .223 too?
I guess reading the AR-15 forums as long as you clean out your barrel every couple hundred rounds, people are saying it should be fine using Wolf ammo. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this. I think it'd be fun to eventually repress my own ammo but for now I'll just stick to assembling the gun.
What kind do you use Hank/Sal/Beans for just target shooting?
Looking at it seems Wolf is the cheapest, but I thought I read in here that Wolf ammo suck, but I think it was in relation to pistols...is this true for the .223 too?
I guess reading the AR-15 forums as long as you clean out your barrel every couple hundred rounds, people are saying it should be fine using Wolf ammo. I'd still like to hear your thoughts on this. I think it'd be fun to eventually repress my own ammo but for now I'll just stick to assembling the gun.
What kind do you use Hank/Sal/Beans for just target shooting?
whoa, that is a cool site. thanks for that. as far as the ammo, I bought 500 rounds of wolf when i first got my gun because it was the cheapest, and honestly I haven't really noticed where it was all that bad, but I've heard other people say that its crap. I just recently bought 200 rounds of pmc but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. the main problem is that any other ammo, and especially when you get up to "good" ammo, is just so damn expensive that it becomes too expensive to shoot enjoyably. I'd like beans opinion on this, cause to me, as long as wolf doesn't actually do permanent damage to guns, I'd rather just keep a good cleaning schedule and save the money, and just buy like 200 rounds of good stuff on hand for the ZA.
I just ordered 2 of these from that website. I saw them at the gun show I just went to and they intrigued me. for the price they're offering, I'm skeptical that maybe they're beat up or something, but either way, 30 round mags for 15 bucks is worth the shot.
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Wednesday, October 29th, 2008, 2:47 PM)
I just ordered 2 of these from that website. I saw them at the gun show I just went to and they intrigued me. for the price they're offering, I'm skeptical that maybe they're beat up or something, but either way, 30 round mags for 15 bucks is worth the shot.
Yep I'm ordering a couple when I get home. Thanks for the link.
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Wednesday, October 29th, 2008, 2:56 AM)
whoa, that is a cool site. thanks for that. as far as the ammo, I bought 500 rounds of wolf when i first got my gun because it was the cheapest, and honestly I haven't really noticed where it was all that bad, but I've heard other people say that its crap. I just recently bought 200 rounds of pmc but haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. the main problem is that any other ammo, and especially when you get up to "good" ammo, is just so damn expensive that it becomes too expensive to shoot enjoyably. I'd like beans opinion on this, cause to me, as long as wolf doesn't actually do permanent damage to guns, I'd rather just keep a good cleaning schedule and save the money, and just buy like 200 rounds of good stuff on hand for the ZA.
Ive never fired the Wolf stuff.....
I actually shoot reloads ninety nine percent of the time in centerfires and pistols. I like to dial in each load to a particular gun for the best accuracy
Plus, I can load custom rounds like subsonic .308's that dont break the speed of sound with a silencer
If you guys shoot quite a bit you might want to look into buying a press and taking up the hobby. Ill be honest though, you wont save money like most will tell you. Youll just be able to shoot much more for the same money
Be careful though.... taking this step can lead to bigger and more expensive hobbies, like buying lathes (re-barreling, crowning/threading muzzles, form1 silencer fabrication), milling machines (completing eighty percent AR15 lowers, custom parts, building entire rifles), curing ovens for refinishing, ultrasonic cleaners, etc, etc, etc.....
Yes, I have problems with keeping things simple sometimes
The best way to shoot your guns cheap is the twenty two conversions
Conversions
Thread on a suppressor and youll have more fun shooting them than anything else....
Oh, and youll love those Pmags. Ive got a metric shit-ton of USGI mags (some with mud from Bosnia still on them...dont ask) but never use them since I tried the P's
QUOTE (beans-n-icewater @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 12:59 AM)
Oh, and youll love those Pmags. Ive got a metric shit-ton of USGI mags (some with mud from Bosnia still on them...dont ask) but never use them since I tried the P's
I don't really see myself getting into reloading since it would require me to "do stuff" but on these magazines, yeah, I'm pretty excited about them. I'm gonna get two more with the window in them too next time I see them. as a matter of fact, I've made it priority number one to buy as many magazines with over 10 round capacity as I can in the near future since that is one of the most guaranteed aspects to be on a new bill.
as far as the ammo, I've been reading the ammo threads over on ar15.com but man, they can get really technical really fast, so its hard to decipher the best info on them. the main problem I have right now is knowing whether I can buy 5.56 ammo or if I have to stick to .223. I know you can shoot .223 in a 5.56 but not the other way around, but I'm not even really sure what I have. the receiver of the damn gun says .223/5.56. I mean what the hell people LET ME KNOW THE TRUTH. hank, I think you and I have identical guns, do you know?
Yeah, just ordered a couple of 29 round clips with +2 extensions on them for my Glcok 23 .40 caliber. Will be good to keep in the car in case I run into a gang war or something. Get all this stuff while you can, with Obama coming into the White House, who knows how long this stuff will be legal.
QUOTE (nhlfan @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:30 PM)
Yeah, just ordered a couple of 29 round clips with +2 extensions on them for my Glcok 23 .40 caliber. Will be good to keep in the car in case I run into a gang war or something. Get all this stuff while you can, with Obama coming into the White House, who knows how long this stuff will be legal.
I haven't been able to find any mags for my .40 Sig 229 that hold more than 12 rounds, anyone have a source?
QUOTE (ajs510 @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 1:34 PM)
I haven't been able to find any mags for my .40 Sig 229 that hold more than 12 rounds, anyone have a source?
Pretty sure they make 15 round clips, but alas, no source.
My Uncle did work for Sig until a few months ago, but he is a prick and didn't get me shit.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 4:37 PM)
Pretty sure they make 15 round clips, but alas, no source.
My Uncle did work for Sig until a few months ago, but he is a prick and didn't get me shit.
My Uncle did work for Sig until a few months ago, but he is a prick and didn't get me shit.
15 rounders are pretty easy to find for the 9mm version, but I've never found anything over 12 for the .40 which is what I have.
QUOTE (ajs510 @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 1:40 PM)
15 rounders are pretty easy to find for the 9mm version, but I've never found anything over 12 for the .40 which is what I have.
Ah, yes sorry. I was thinking 9mm even though I read the .40.
My dad has a few 15 round clips for his p226 9mm.
Can't get them anymore thought. Friggin CA.
QUOTE (ajs510 @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 2:40 PM)
15 rounders are pretty easy to find for the 9mm version, but I've never found anything over 12 for the .40 which is what I have.
I was looking for higher cap mags for my Beretta .40 and anything above 12 doesn't fit properly so it'll be one of those clips that stick out of the bottom by a couple inches and look ridiculous. I'd imagine it's the same problem for a Sig.
If I want a pistol for protection and am willing to spend up to 1k for it, which should I get?
QUOTE (whatgreatis @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 8:06 PM)
If I want a pistol for protection and am willing to spend up to 1k for it, which should I get?
I would look in the .40S&W or .45 caliber area. 9mm is ok as well and fairly cheap to shoot for practice but it's more of a penetration bullet. I prefer the knock down of the .40 or .45.
Beretta, Sig, or Glock are my top as far as brands go. When it comes to models it's more about feel. Go with a model that fits your hand well and feels the most natural in it.
I don't know what your background is with shooting or handling firearms so I'll put this out there in case you're fairly inexperienced:
What ever you get make sure you go to the range frequently, especially in the beginning. It is imperative that you become intimately familiar with your weapon and how it shoots and how you react when it fires. Especially if this is a personal defense weapon.
Cleaning and maintenance are highly important, do it diligently.
Give careful consideration to how you will store your weapoon. Loaded with one in the chamber? Loaded without one in the chamber? Empty? Empty and locked up?
If you said empty, might as well get a baseball bat instead. If you said empty and locked up, might as well just stay in the Lord's good book instead.
QUOTE (hank213 @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 11:13 PM)
.40S&W
Sig
If you said empty, might as well get a baseball bat instead. If you said empty and locked up, might as well just stay in the Lord's good book instead.
Sig
If you said empty, might as well get a baseball bat instead. If you said empty and locked up, might as well just stay in the Lord's good book instead.
this, this, and this. I have a glock and love it, but I want a sig so that is what I will be recommending today.
hank, did you see my question re: .223 vs. 5.56 above? I'm ever so confused.
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 5:54 AM)
this, this, and this. I have a glock and love it, but I want a sig so that is what I will be recommending today.
You'll never regret that purchase, I love my P229.
QUOTE (ajs510 @ Thursday, October 30th, 2008, 1:34 PM)
I haven't been able to find any mags for my .40 Sig 229 that hold more than 12 rounds, anyone have a source?
Sherer is the only company that makes the oversized clips for Glocks, Glock doesn't even make them. The one I got for my glock is for the Glock .40 and the Sig .357, doesn't look like they make one for the Sig .40 though :-(
QUOTE (nhlfan @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 5:21 AM)
Sherer is the only company that makes the oversized clips for Glocks, Glock doesn't even make them. The one I got for my glock is for the Glock .40 and the Sig .357, doesn't look like they make one for the Sig .40 though :-(
Glock quit making G18 mags?
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 3:54 AM)
this, this, and this. I have a glock and love it, but I want a sig so that is what I will be recommending today.
hank, did you see my question re: .223 vs. 5.56 above? I'm ever so confused.
hank, did you see my question re: .223 vs. 5.56 above? I'm ever so confused.
From preliminary research I'd say it's possible but not recommended (assuming your rifle is chambered for .223 specifically and not 5.56)
http://www.thegunzone.com/556v223.html
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/ammunition-relo...difference.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington
QUOTE (hank213 @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 9:23 AM)
From preliminary research I'd say it's possible but not recommended (assuming your rifle is chambered for .223 specifically and not 5.56)
oh yeah, I've got that much. my problem is that I'm not sure what my rifle is chambered at (I don't know where the owners manual is and the side of the gun has ".223/5.56). I remembered that I thought we had identical guns and was wondering if you knew if yours could shoot 5.56 or not. I'm sure I could find out with very minimal research, but as you know, I'm uber lazy.
P229 Sig 40 would have been my recommendation also.
Hank, the loaded unlaoded thing is not as black and white as you made it though if their are children in the house.
Personally I keep my clip loaded next to the gun up high in my closet. I know in a split second that will be useless, but at the same time I am not leaving a loaded firearm anywhere my child could get it.
All my other guns are in my friends safe at his house. His safe is the size of closet, it's freaking huge.
Hank, the loaded unlaoded thing is not as black and white as you made it though if their are children in the house.
Personally I keep my clip loaded next to the gun up high in my closet. I know in a split second that will be useless, but at the same time I am not leaving a loaded firearm anywhere my child could get it.
All my other guns are in my friends safe at his house. His safe is the size of closet, it's freaking huge.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 10:04 AM)
Personally I keep my clip loaded next to the gun up high in my closet. I know in a split second that will be useless, but at the same time I am not leaving a loaded firearm anywhere my child could get it.
then what do they have to play with when friends come over?
QUOTE (Sal Paradise @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 8:07 AM)
then what do they have to play with when friends come over?
A sai, studded mase and numchucks and if they are really good I break out the katana.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 11:04 AM)
All my other guns are in my friends safe at his house. His safe is the size of closet, it's freaking huge.
Did you have to transfer them to his permit to do that?
One of those gun vaults is my next big purchase.
QUOTE (ajs510 @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 8:18 AM)
Did you have to transfer them to his permit to do that?
One of those gun vaults is my next big purchase.
One of those gun vaults is my next big purchase.
What permit?
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 11:19 AM)
What permit?
Wait, California is nuts for gun control but they don't require permits for handguns?
Or do I think you're from California but you're not?
QUOTE (ajs510 @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 9:00 AM)
Wait, California is nuts for gun control but they don't require permits for handguns?
Or do I think you're from California but you're not?
Or do I think you're from California but you're not?
Yeah, no permits required.
EDIT: I don't know about new purchases, I have only bought used guns privately.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 12:00 PM)
Yeah, no permits required.
EDIT: I don't know about new purchases, I have only bought used guns privately.
EDIT: I don't know about new purchases, I have only bought used guns privately.
It appears from my ten second Google that you need a CCW to carry, but no ownership permit required.
That seems strange to me, I always thought it was really difficult to buy a gun in California these days.
QUOTE (El Guapo @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 9:04 AM)
P229 Sig 40 would have been my recommendation also.
Hank, the loaded unlaoded thing is not as black and white as you made it though if their are children in the house.
Personally I keep my clip loaded next to the gun up high in my closet. I know in a split second that will be useless, but at the same time I am not leaving a loaded firearm anywhere my child could get it.
All my other guns are in my friends safe at his house. His safe is the size of closet, it's freaking huge.
Hank, the loaded unlaoded thing is not as black and white as you made it though if their are children in the house.
Personally I keep my clip loaded next to the gun up high in my closet. I know in a split second that will be useless, but at the same time I am not leaving a loaded firearm anywhere my child could get it.
All my other guns are in my friends safe at his house. His safe is the size of closet, it's freaking huge.
Yeah it's tricky with kids. All I can speak to is my personal experience. I shot my first handgun, assisted, when I was 6. It dawned on me pretty damn quick how powerful those things were and that they were not toys to be handled lightly. Therefore, I never messed with any gun in the house, loaded or otherwise. But, that probably won't work for most kids.
The point was that a personal defense weapon is only as functional as you're willing to make it. It's not exactly functional as a protective device if the gun is locked in a cabinet and bullets are in a box.
QUOTE (ajs510 @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 9:04 AM)
It appears from my ten second Google that you need a CCW to carry, but no ownership permit required.
That seems strange to me, I always thought it was really difficult to buy a gun in California these days.
That seems strange to me, I always thought it was really difficult to buy a gun in California these days.
Not anymore difficult that anywhere else, we just have more banned guns.
QUOTE (hank213 @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 9:07 AM)
Yeah it's tricky with kids. All I can speak to is my personal experience. I shot my first handgun, assisted, when I was 6. It dawned on me pretty damn quick how powerful those things were and that they were not toys to be handled lightly. Therefore, I never messed with any gun in the house, loaded or otherwise. But, that probably won't work for most kids.
The point was that a personal defense weapon is only as functional as you're willing to make it. It's not exactly functional as a protective device if the gun is locked in a cabinet and bullets are in a box.
The point was that a personal defense weapon is only as functional as you're willing to make it. It's not exactly functional as a protective device if the gun is locked in a cabinet and bullets are in a box.
I agree completely. I was somewhere around that age, maybe 8, I got my first 22 rifle at 10.
But you cant really explain that to a 3 year old.
Also I agree with what you said about becoming intimate with your weapon. (HOT!) I rarely shoot anymore, so I have to re-learn my guns everytime I go out. I spend a good 10 minutes just double checking everything again.
QUOTE (hank213 @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 12:07 PM)
Yeah it's tricky with kids. All I can speak to is my personal experience. I shot my first handgun, assisted, when I was 6. It dawned on me pretty damn quick how powerful those things were and that they were not toys to be handled lightly. Therefore, I never messed with any gun in the house, loaded or otherwise. But, that probably won't work for most kids.
The point was that a personal defense weapon is only as functional as you're willing to make it. It's not exactly functional as a protective device if the gun is locked in a cabinet and bullets are in a box.
The point was that a personal defense weapon is only as functional as you're willing to make it. It's not exactly functional as a protective device if the gun is locked in a cabinet and bullets are in a box.
Yeah, I used to shoot all the time as a kid but don't get much opportunity anymore. There are no public ranges here that allow handguns, and obviously all the private ones require a year's membership.
My father used a natural progression in teaching me about guns. I had toy guns but was always coached that it was totally unacceptable to ever point them at anyone. Graduated to BB guns by age 6 or 7 and it was always drummed into my head that I could shoot as much as I wanted but if I ever acted irresponsibly or broke the rules, the gun would go away for a week without question.
Started firing "real guns" by age 8 or 9 and pretty much ran the gambit of everything you could ever want to fire because all of my Dad's friends and relatives were gun enthusiasts. By the time I was 14 I had fired a .50 Desert Eagle (not as bad as they're made out to be, although I might have been firing soft loads), .44 mag revolver (wicked), .38, 9mm, .45, .357, endless rounds of .22, .50 black powder rifle...you name it.
I've been around kids these days that can't be trusted with as much as a BB gun, you try to teach them the right way to approach guns and they're just all over the map pointing it every which way without a care in the world. It's scary how little personal responsibility kids have these days.
QUOTE (AmScray @ Friday, October 31st, 2008, 5:17 AM)
Glock quit making G18 mags?
No, Glock never made an extended mag for the 23. They did for some other models, just not the .40. Sherer is the only company the 29 rounders for the glock .40.
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