Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (6 handed) http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Onlin...t.php#converter" target="_blank">Ultimate Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP ($8.60)
CO ($51.55) - 37/11/3 over 91 hands
Hero ($68.80)
SB ($8)
BB ($51.75)
UTG ($49.25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
2 folds, CO raises to $1.75, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, BB calls $5.50, CO folds.

Flop: ($14) , , (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, BB INSTA raises to $38, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $30

I've been at the table 15-20 min at this point, I definetly don't have the best table image. I had been LAGing it up from the CO and BUTTON, playing tighter from UTG and MP. I've allready taken down a couple medium sized pots from the villian without showing down a hand, one time when I had the nuts, another where I was bluffing AK high. I'm pretty sure I actually hadn't shown down a single hand against anyone at the table so my raises were getting less respect, which is why I was playing tighter from UTG and MP because I would usually get called and be OOP the rest of the hand. Villian was actually calling about 90% of my raises after the two pots I won without showdown so his range is probably a mile wide.

I really wanted to check the flop since I thought my table image would greatly increase the chances of getting bluff raised by a worse hand. In fact if the diamond draw wasn't out there I probably would have to try to extract value out of the weaker hands in his range. Thoughts on checking the flop?

Also, I'm not sure what to make of the insta raise on the flop. I could see it being him having a Q and deciding he was playing for a check raise before he even checked. Or, he decided he was bluffing me since I likely didn't hold a Q.

So basically I'm not sure if the laydown was correct given my image and if I can maximize value by checking the flop.

Unless I have a read on a player saying I should play it otherwise, I probably play it the same way.

I'm pretty awful at poker but, given the table circumstances that you described, I don't think I can fold here. There are just too many other hands that he makes this move with other than AQ that we beat to let it go IMO.

If he called a 3.5 times the big blind OOP, I would say he had some kind of suited Q or just strong suited cards that matched the flop. Even the chance that he had a strong pocket pair in his hand. Doubt he had pocket 9s, he would have smooth called you on the flop I would think. Being that he's first to act and re-raised you, you almost have to assume that he has a strong hand. But it's such a big raise, I'd almost say he was protecting his draw. This is a fold or shove hand IMO. With a wide range opponent, it's hard to say. I'd say you'd have to go on feel here.

If I read it right, I'd say he was protecting his draw. I probably would have shoved here, and I'm sure I would have seen quad queens or something.

All-in.

QFTMFT! With his numbers, I think this could be his range. Yes if he has you beat he felts you, but you have a lot of equity, and you can't lay this down.

Board: Qd 9d Qh
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 41.071% 41.07% 00.00% 15451 0.00 { AcAd }
Hand 1: 58.929% 58.93% 00.00% 22169 0.00 { QQ, 99, KcQc, KhQh, KsQs, KdJd, KhJh, KsJs, KdTd, QcJc, QsJs, QcTc, QsTs, Qc9c, Qh9h, Qs9s, JdTd, JhTh, JsTs, QcJs, QhJc, QsJc, QcTs, QsTc, QsTd, Qc9s, Qs9c, JTo }

Whoa... that's an awfully big raise for a queen... I think this is a FD more often than not.

Yeah, AQ, KQ, QJ, QT, 99

I dunno. You gotta be right about this pretty much every time becuase when you're behind, you're drawing VERY slim and when he's behind, he's usually drawing pretty live. Unless I had a pretty solid read to tell me that he'd do this with less than a Q, then I'm folding here.

Do hands with a queen in them other than AQ or QQ really call 12BB preflop? I would be reluctant to include the likes of QJ or QT in his range tbh.

I just don't think its profitable to build a laggy image and then let hands like this go. This is the type of hand we get away from if we have a tight table image with some respect, I might be wrong though.

Also I am not a massive fan of our flop bet. I think it looks kind of weak and may have induced this guy to make a play at us. I prefer betting like $10-$12.

I dunno, I probably just go with it here, I am bad though so that needs to be factored into the equation, but Shinzilla's good and he agreed with me.

First of all, it's not like they coldcalled 12BBs preflop. They raised and were reraised by a LAG player and called an additional 8BBs getting 2-1. Would they call with KQ, or QJ or whatever here? Yeah. Should they? No.

Also, I think the bolded part is wrong. Just becuase we have a LAG image, doesn't mean that he's playing back at us with nothing (unless he's already shown that he's willing to do that, which changes everything) and it doesn't mean that we can't fold a strong hand in the face of some resistence.

People are eager to give the villain some kind of flush draw. We have the Ad. The best diamond draw he could have is KJdd, KTdd or JTdd. Aside from those 3 hands and JTo, most of the combos of his hand are made hands. He shouldn't be showing up with K8dd or J8dd. He really shouldn't even show up with JTo that often. Pocket 9s, KQs, AQ, QJs, are all reasonable holdings.

Factor in that a lot of players wait for a hand to fight back against a LAG becuase they figure that having the goods is easier than risking a lot of chips and hoping that the LAG didn't hit the flop, and I think that he's got a made hand more of the time here than he has a draw.

If we didn't have the Ad, I'd be more inclined to play against him becuase it'd be more likely that he had a flush draw since there are so many combos of suited aces to play. The hand plays out like he nailed the flop and couldn't wait to get the money in.

I dump AA here.

Also, with the Ad, I'd check the flop here and play for a little pot control since it is more unlikely that he's fishing for a flush.

Why can't this be Kings/Jacks/ or Tens again?

2 reasons I wouldn't weight these too heavily in the range

1. OOP against a LAGtard, he'd probably RR most of the time preflop, especially with KK
2. Wouldn't it seem kind of suicidal to play the hands this way on that flop?

I don't think flop bet matters here. I was insta reraised which tells me the villian probably planned on raising before he checked. I think if I bet $2 or $14 I get the same results.

Also, 1/2 - 3/4 would be my standard bet size here so anything else would stand out from the 10 other times I played pots against him and coninuation bet with or without a hand.

I chose the smaller end of that range for a reason that I really didn't like my hand if I got raised and the only reason I bet is because of the combo straight and flush draw. Had one of the two not been present I would have checked this every time but I felt obligated to bet to protect against the draws. After being raised I didn't know what to do so I thought until I got the 15 sec to act reminder. At that point I guess I just went with my orginal thinking of not liking my hand to a raise, figured I could find another spot, and folded.

I think you misread the hand history, villian actually did cold call 12BB's from the big blind.

I agree with everything you said, that just because I'm playing LAG doesn't mean he isn't waiting for a big hand to come after me with. It just really complicates the matter not knowing what is going on.

Honestly the villian had called my raises from the SB and BB so many times I really didn't give him much credit for a hand even though he did call 12BB's cold. Maybe this was a mistake and I gave a Q to heavy of a weight for his range, I don't know?

Good point about having the Ad killing alot of flush draws. I think now pot control and checking the flop is probably the right play here.

I'm not questioning your reasoning behind the fold, it is solid. I guess I just can't give the villain credit for a Q often enough here to let it go.

With the flop bet I guess I just size my bets on the flop a bit differently. I would bet between $10 and $12 here myself, but I guess if this is your normal cbet then it is sweet.

I didn't say you were, I just really ment to say that with the insta min raise I don't think flop bet size mattered. It ended up just flowing into my reasons for folding just to get them out there.

The insta raise is pretty weird don't you think? And the raise is pretty large as well. Did this factor into your thinking at all?

I did misread the HH, you're right. It changes things only a little though. Had he played back at you yet after coldcalling your raises?

Honestly, I was playing 2 nights ago and I made a similar bet. I called a small CO raise from the BB with T8ss. The flop came down TT4r and I checked and I think he bet like $8 into the $13 pot and I c/r to like $35 or something ridiculous like that. I call it the "I'd never make this raise with a Ten" raise becuase it's so likely to scare off your customer since it's so big and you'd want action with your trips. I figured it was the best way to get action becuase I figured that the oversized raise on a dry board would not be read as trips. I'm not sure how well this actually worked because we did get all of our chips in the middle on the turn, probably due in large part to him holding KT and doubling through me but it's the same idea that some people make the larger raise becuase they think you'll put them on trips a lower % of the time.

i've actually experimented a little bit w/ these types of plays... based on my limited experience, i notice they work like 50x more in real life though... i just miss value when i do it online it seems...


live - you'd be surprised what you get called by... & it's always nice when the old man w/ bottom pair "just dont think you got it!" lol...

i love casinos

At the time I thought the raise was rather large but its actually a pot sized raise, which would explain how it came out so fast, he just mashed the bet pot button. This is why I'm so confused I didn't feel this guy was a strong kind of player that's going to make a bet that looks like it doesn't want a call when it really does. But, I could see him as a player that goes OMG I HAVE 3 Q'S I RAISE! The way this guy was playing, calling a ton against me preflop, I actually expected to win a big pot off him by him starting to call me down weak post flop. So when he raised so big so quick it really threw me off. This was probably the decididng factor that I thought I had a feel for how he would play then he did something I hadn't seen before and I just couldn't peg it at a bluff, so I folded.



This was the first time he had called a raise and a reraise from the blinds. He had called alot of my late position opening raises then usually folded to a continuation bet. I'm pretty sure this was the first time he played back at me in any pot.